Administrators hughezee Posted October 22, 2014 Administrators Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Accord Coupe failing to start Well obviously check the battery now before condemning your fuel pump check the fuel pump relay, more commonly known as a hot start problem but it can happen anytime and can start with an intermittent none start or low idle with cutting out with no warning at all. However' not all is lost this part can be replaced for around £50 for either 2.0L or 3.0L engine P/N: 39400-S84-003 or if you're handy with soldering iron you could repair it yourself, few pic's below After carefully removing the grey cover you can see there are five cracked solders resulting in an intermittent none start once re-soldered it worked faultlessly. Note: Repairing these relays only works in about 70% of all cases anyway more pic's to follow with another relay arriving on my desk soon 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Founding Member Retro Rich Posted October 23, 2014 Founding Member Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 I see the dry joints straight away. Electronic engineer's eye Thanks for sorting it buddy! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators hughezee Posted October 25, 2014 Author Administrators Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 Your welcome m8y and I've got another coupe coming in on Sunday, so more pic's to follow 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welland99 Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 I had a problem like this a few years ago, but the symptoms were slightly different. It would always start from cold and run fine. It would intermittently cut out while driving. It would then refuse to start for about a minute. Then, magically, it would start perfectly and run fine. Anyway, I diagnosed the problem to the fuel pump because i noticed that when it was playing up, the fuel pump didn't do that short "buzz" just after turning on the ignition. I then rigged up a temporary electrical supply from the cigar lighter to the fuel pump until i got a replacement relay. Managed to pick up one cheap from a breakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators hughezee Posted October 30, 2014 Author Administrators Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Thanks for sharing your experience m8y coincidentally a car I looked at recently the owner had replaced the fuel pump twice as symptoms disappeared for a while and then the issue returned again. Long story short, he brought the car over to me and I've now swapped the relay for good one 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators hughezee Posted November 12, 2014 Author Administrators Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 Finally got around to re-soldering the relay I swapped the other day plus a spare as promised more pic's... All tested job done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V6vtec Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 I keep a spare in my 'spares kit' in the boot of the car. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8yearsnow Posted November 8, 2016 Report Share Posted November 8, 2016 Got mine fixed at the main dealer for £75 fitted.Im too old to be messing about in the foot well but good tips and pics all the same. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators hughezee Posted November 8, 2016 Author Administrators Report Share Posted November 8, 2016 I offer this fix for the cost of postage to all members, I send one out to you straight away and then you return your old one for me to fix, very likely they have fitted the revised relay anyway, so not that bad without the hassle like you say 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Laird_Scooby Posted November 11, 2016 Moderators Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 I suppose i should really get myself a spare rather than relying on repairing them if and when they play up............ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welland99 Posted November 12, 2016 Report Share Posted November 12, 2016 On 08/11/2016 at 10:50 PM, 8yearsnow said: Got mine fixed at the main dealer for £75 fitted.Im too old to be messing about in the foot well but good tips and pics all the same. Yes, I remember that it was in a very awkward spot. Mine continues to be reliable with the spare I fitted from the breakers some years ago. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welland99 Posted November 12, 2016 Report Share Posted November 12, 2016 20 hours ago, Laird_Scooby said: I suppose i should really get myself a spare rather than relying on repairing them if and when they play up............ In my spares kit, I have two of these relays. One is my faulty one that I removed, and the other came from a breakers yard. When I was in there, I got two, and fitted one - that worked fine. Trouble is that my faulty one and the untested one from the breakers are now mixed up! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Founding Member Cryistic Posted November 14, 2016 Founding Member Report Share Posted November 14, 2016 The relay itsself was £60 from the local Honda dealers. Fitting wasnt to hard, 1/4" sockets to take the bracket off the column, small flat head to assist getting the loom connectors off about 10 min in the end if i remember. Then about 90 min trying to fix the abused drivers side lower dash panel that the previous owner had buggered all the mounting clips and points. I belive my relay had already been replaced as i had a Siemens VRM-022 relay fitted not a Honda oem relay. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators hughezee Posted November 15, 2016 Author Administrators Report Share Posted November 15, 2016 Siemens USA VRM-0022 was the original part Richie and the new one is a Mitsuba RZ-0159 Also coincidentally Geoff will be hear very soon to have one swapped, so which shall it be the new version or the classic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Laird_Scooby Posted November 15, 2016 Moderators Report Share Posted November 15, 2016 New version - I'm sure Geoff won't mind being the guinea pig! Especially as the new one is allegedly improved! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators hughezee Posted November 15, 2016 Author Administrators Report Share Posted November 15, 2016 I have fitted a few new ones including on my coupe, only time will tell 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mangoman Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 Hi chaps. Sorry I haven't been about but my Internet is playing up as well as this blooming Accord..!!! Parked up at the supermarket yesterday and when I returned to the car it wouldn't start. Well, I say wouldn't when it did in fact try it's hardest but just idled a bit and then stalled..!! After quite a while of doing this I eventually had to call the AA. He looked and looked and decifered that there was no fuel getting through. I told him to squirt some of the good stuff down the intake, which he did and it roared into life!! I feel it's the relay after reading some articles on the issue. I hate untrustworthy cars, I really do. Nothing worse in my mind... I don't even want to get in it. I'm going to give the relay a go. I'm hoping it works. Any pointers please as to repair please? I'm reasonably good with a soldering iron. My old man was an electrical engineer. Thanks in advance. (From seriously not impressed).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Founding Member Cryistic Posted November 17, 2016 Founding Member Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 A new one is £60 from Honda, I wouldn't bother messing about with the old one for that kind of money, think of it as a wise use of the money you could have wasted on a K&N filter http://techauto.awardspace.com/mainrelaydefine.html#98 http://techauto.awardspace.com/mainrelay.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Laird_Scooby Posted November 17, 2016 Moderators Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 Sorry to hear of your troubles Bill bad enough t'internet plays up without the car joining in so it doesn't feel left out! When your car played up, were you parked on a flat car park or on a hill? Also how much fuel was in the tank? There's a common problem this time of year (for all cars, not just Hondas) and that is condensation in the tank. If you were facing downhill (if memory serves the pump & pick-up is at the back of the tank) and down to about 1/4 tank or less, there's a fair chance it was either basic fuel starvation or that condensation was in the tank leading to water being the only thing the fuel pump was pumping. Easily fixed by adding between 500ml - 1L of meths to the tank. It "mixes" with the water so that it is then pulled through the fuel lines and burned off. There's a load of scientific mumbo-jumbo that goes with this to explains the why's and wherefore's - simple fact is this works and has been proven many times by many people. Before anyone pipes up about methylated spirits/methanol damaging seals and fuel lines etc, if you filled your tank with it long term then yes it might, as a one off treatment in this concentration it won't. Now for the other probability - the Main Relay. It lurks up inside the dashboard just above the pedals, here's a DIY guide to fixing it yourself in addition to Stus guide further up this thread : http://www.marklamond.co.uk/tech-honda/pgm-fi/main-relay/main-relay.htm I believe Stu offers a "good for bad" swap service for members, he sends you a repaired/tested secondhand relay, you change them over and send your faulty one back to him, job done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mangoman Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 Thanks to both of the above, all very valid advice. Thank you.... ? The local Honda spares warehouse has the uprated Mitsuba Relay. £51.00 I suppose a swap with Stuff would be the most economical way to go. But either way I am going to reposition the damned thing! By the way I'm doing this on my cellphone using a hijacked WiFi signal from my kind neighbour. (Hopefully back up and running on mine tomorrow). ? I'm going to have a look at the one in there today before getting the new one. Thanks again one and all... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Founding Member Cryistic Posted November 17, 2016 Founding Member Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 The main way to find out if it's the relay is to listen to the click of the relay then the whirr of the fuel pump, which it will do when cold but not when it's been warmed up then parked for a bit. Once it cools and contracts it will fire up again, this is probabaly what got your coupe started this time and not the fuel/ether down the intake, the fuel pump is electric and not mechanical.. Just stick the relay back in its orginal place to stop any strain on the loom, it will probably out last the gearbox now! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Laird_Scooby Posted November 17, 2016 Moderators Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 There are two separate parts to the relay Richie - one part works with the starter and when the ignition is first switched on, the second only when the engine is running. That's why the ether got the engine fired enough for the second part of the relay to kick in but it couldn't prime or build pressure because the other part wasn't working. That's the theory anyway. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Founding Member Cryistic Posted November 17, 2016 Founding Member Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 1 hour ago, Laird_Scooby said: There are two separate parts to the relay Richie - one part works with the starter and when the ignition is first switched on, the second only when the engine is running. That's why the ether got the engine fired enough for the second part of the relay to kick in but it couldn't prime or build pressure because the other part wasn't working. That's the theory anyway. Quite a lot more likely that it had spent long enough for the dry joint to close up, I've been on the receiving end of this not more than about 2 months ago, I had the same situation with the RAC, working on it for 45 min, deciding to tow the car as the relay wasnt engaging, spent another 15 min chatting with the ~RAC guy and just out of curiosity trying to start the car before he got his towing dolly out, which fired up and purred away, spiteful little cow that she is! This happened once before when I first got the car, exactly the same symptoms that it started after sitting for a while. I can see that there are 2 separate parts to the relay, but wouldn't the fuel system lack pressure to start if it had been sitting churning over for a while trying to start, the fuel pump runs for a while when you start the car usually, I'd expect the ether to start the car then the engine to die as the fuel system isnt pressurized? This is an assumption on my part as I dont know enough the state this as a fact I It really is the only issue I've had with mine in 3+ years of ownership, so get this one niggle out of the way and she will serve you well in the coming years. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Laird_Scooby Posted November 17, 2016 Moderators Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 If you read what i wrote above Richie - fist part of the relay operates during cranking/starting and for a couple of seconds when the ignition is first switched on, the second part only operates with the engine running. That means after a warm/hot start where fuel has vapourised in the fuel rails there is basically no fuel to go through the injectors. Yes it might build some pressure during cranking and nearly fire/fire for a second then die but not long enough to keep running until the second part of the relay (sensing that the engine is now turning faster than cranking speed) kicks in and powers the fuel pump. Using the ether overcomes this hiatus and lets the engine keep running until pressure has bult courtesy of the second part of the relay so it keeps running. Some systems work slightly differently and the first part is only for priming, the second part comes in during cranking and running with a delay on release of the starter to keep pressure up while the engine catches proerly. Either way the ether will overcome any stumble during this period. My Volvo for example uses the second type, fairly sure without double checking Honda PGM-Fi systems use the first method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Founding Member Cryistic Posted November 17, 2016 Founding Member Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 Interesting, every day is a school day isnt it! Save your self £60 notes and buy a can of this 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now