Not Starting No Start 1998 1999 2000 2001 CG Accord Coupe

[Laird_Scooby]

Gawd bless Awstrylia!

It was sold here for a while, not sure if it still is though. That said you'd soon rack up £60 on cans of ether and frustration each time it happened!

[Mangoman]

21 hours ago, Laird_Scooby said:

There are two separate parts to the relay Richie - one part works with the starter and when the ignition is first switched on, the second only when the engine is running. That's why the ether got the engine fired enough for the second part of the relay to kick in but it couldn't prime or build pressure because the other part wasn't working.

That's the theory anyway.

I'm with you here Dave...

[Mangoman]

19 hours ago, Cryistic said:

Quite a lot more likely that it had spent long enough for the dry joint to close up,

I tried starting it literally a couple of seconds before trying it with Easy-Start and it was a non-starter ... 

(It has started without fault a half dozen times since).

[hughezee]

Sorry to hear of your recent troubles, personally I would replace the relay or I will happily pop a repaired one in the post to you, once your blasting warm air to the foot-well area its likely to start giving you trouble again and it will only get worse

[Mangoman]

Thanks Hughezee but already bought and fitted....

But I can send you the old one if you like?

[hughezee]

Just now, Mangoman said:

Thanks Hugh but already bought and fitted....

But I can send you the old one if you like?

Good Man

[Mazda Man]

Exactly what happened to my beloved Purple Haze last week.  Popped into Asda for a loaf of bread, turned key, waited for D4 light to go out and it kind of started then just died, as if no petrol was getting to the injectors.  Tried again, nothing, the revs struggled to stabilise and then just died, obviously burning the little bit of fuel left in the injectors.  So I started panicking and had visions of being stranded and worse, having to get the bus to work!  So I waited 30 seconds and whoosh, she fired up although the revs were a little unstable. I then called the 2nd emergency service - aka Stu - who said it could be a number of things including the relay. 

First thing I did when I got home was look on the forum and all the symptoms mentioned indicated a dodgy relay.  Although it was past 9pm I know Stu is a night owl so I called him and asked if he had a relay, which was a silly question as Stu has most parts.  . Anyway, cut a long story short, I drove to Stu's in thick fog and he whipped out his torch and fitted a brand new relay in 1 minute 35 seconds.  Since then, no starting issues at all.  While the bonnet was up, Stu commented that the engine doesn't sound it's usual smooth self and sure enough, one of the HT leads on the dizzy was loose.  Once it was pushed back in the noise (which came from the timing belt area) disappeared, so I'm having a new dizzy and rotor imminently. He could also tell it wasn't running properly by touching the top of the drivers door!  Definitely black magic going on. 

One again, Stu to the rescue and stopped me buying a Day Saver bus pass!  

To summarise, our coupes are "knocking on a bit" and if the relay isn't known to be recently replaced/repaired then it will probably fail soon so contact Stu and get it replaced.  

[PTR200S]

Looks possible like I have this failure now, can't see the pics in the first page of this topics (thank you fu$$wits at PB)

Can someone point me in the right direction for the relay location... its dark here !

[hughezee]

5 minutes ago, PTR200S said:

Looks possible like I have this failure now, can't see the pics in the first page of this topics (thank you fu$$wits at PB)

Can someone point me in the right direction for the relay location... its dark here !

Oh bugger sorry to hear this Pete, it's accessible from drivers footwell right of the steering wheel towards the fuse board mounted on a bracket, will post a picture in a moment.

[hughezee]

 

[PTR200S]

20 minutes ago, hughezee said:

Oh bugger sorry to hear this Pete, it's accessible from drivers footwell right of the steering wheel towards the fuse board mounted on a bracket, will post a picture in a moment.

Thanks for the pics Stu, located it although looks bigger than the one on photo? 

Can't get it off the bracket, does it just push up or is there a clip on it?

[hughezee]

Just now, PTR200S said:

Thanks for the pics Stu, located it although looks bigger than the one on photo? 

Can't get it off the bracket, does it just push up or is there a clip on it?

There is a lip on the edge and should push up off the bracket and if it's the larger one very likely the new version.

[PTR200S]

13 minutes ago, hughezee said:

There is a lip on the edge and should push up off the bracket and if it's the larger one very likely the new version.

sheesh, still can't get it off, not being left handed doesn't help!...........

have to leave it tonight, its dark and started to rain,...hasn't rained for two days.......but when I want to do something........

and I suppose if it's the new one then it might not be the problem?

[hughezee]

8 minutes ago, PTR200S said:

sheesh, still can't get it off, not being left handed doesn't help!...........

Try moving side to side a little or pushing a flat end screw driver between the relay and the bracket will normally free it.

8 minutes ago, PTR200S said:

I suppose if it's the new one then it might not be the problem?

Just what I was thinking hmmmmmmmmmmmm

[PTR200S]

1 minute ago, hughezee said:

Try moving side to side a little or pushing a flat end screw driver between the relay and the bracket will normally free it.

Just what I was thinking hmmmmmmmmmmmm

Thanks, will have a go tomorrow, just borrowed the daughters Jazz for early start tomorrow,,,,

Thing that bugs me is that I sung its (Coupe) praises a couple days ago and its just kicked me in the nuts......

I suppose the good thing is its died in my front garden rather than at the airport !

Wondering if it could be something else other than the relay.....

[hughezee]

Another one to try is giving the relay a tap and try starting it again, failing it being the relay and as it suddenly stopped working, could be in need of new plugs, battery dying even with it turning, just doesn't have the guts to ignite the fuel.  

[Laird_Scooby]

27 minutes ago, PTR200S said:

Wondering if it could be something else other than the relay.....

Inertia switch (can't remember if this gen HAC has them), sudden failure of HT leads, carbon brush in the dizzy cap, blown fuse - all are possibilities that come to mind. Some of then have the Coil-on-plug system so if yours has then you can rule out two possibles.

If it's not the Main Relay my first port of call would be the inertia switch, i've known them many times  to "trip out" even when mechanically they haven't been triggered, i call it its "third state". Best method is tap the switch with a hefty screwdriver handle until it triggers then reset it by pushing the button back in.

Another method that sometimes works on the Main Relay is "massaging" it, i did that the first (and only) time my Coupé did it to me. Got it home, whipped it out and resoldered it, sorted.

http://www.marklamond.co.uk/tech-honda/pgm-fi/main-relay/main-relay.htm

That gives details of resoldering etc which might help until Stu sorts all the photos.

[hughezee]

6 minutes ago, Laird_Scooby said:

Stu sorts all the photos.

Already sorted buddy

[Laird_Scooby]

1 minute ago, hughezee said:

Already sorted buddy

Oops! Just spotted that bit!

[PTR200S]

Thanks guys, will report back through what have you done to the coupe today thread when I get to the bottom of it, I can't hear a click or whirr of pump when i turn ignition on, will check fuse too but money is on relay.

Currently 6am so other things taking up time, namely the airport run ! Just hope the Jazz is good to go.

[PTR200S]

Quick follow up here re a change to the engine and box after resoldering the relay. 

The engine note is much more agressive in its intake growl on poking the throttle , so much so I had to open the bonnet to check the intake filter hadn't dropped off 

The lockup on the gearbox used to, not jolt but you could feel the change as discussed on another thread on the forum plus didn't seem to be locking up at , say, 30mph. Well all that has changed. its totally smooth on locking now and detectable from 30mph upwards..on light throttle of course.

Revs at lockup at 30mph is about 1150/1200 , 40mph about 1600 rpm.... according to cars rev counter which may or may not be that accurate.

 

So what's going on here, then... That relay controls the fuel pump, the injectors and the ignition/ecu signalling as i understand it....if my relay is now working as it should perhaps its doing what it should have been doing, talking properly to the ECU

For instance, I presume that changing gear requires a cut of the ignition signal, cut injectors or pump if only momentarily in conjunction with the autobox basic signal (electro mechanical box ??)

Anyway, extremely interesting if this is the case....

[Laird_Scooby]

I know on the C27 and its associated auto box the ignition timing is momentarily retarded slightly during gearchanges to help make them smoother, i'm fairly sure the J30 does similar but Stu can confirm or otherwise on that point.

There is the possibility that if the Main Relay wasn't passing all the current it should, reduced voltage would be reaching the PGM-Fi ECU and it assumed battery voltage was down so adjusted things accordingly - now it's back to where it should be "normal service is resumed".

[hughezee]

Yes, what Dave's saying is basically spot on and if you did notice a difference in shifts after the fix I would check the condition of the earth wire attached to the transmission just below the level of the starter motor.

[hughezee]

Also to verify what Dave was saying

[PTR200S]

28 minutes ago, hughezee said:

Also to verify what Dave was saying

Ah, yes confirms what I was guessing at re connections and as Dave says, makes a difference on how big your voltage is