98-02 Accord Coupe 3.0 V6 Air Conditioning System Discussion

[Laird_Scooby]

That's not a full service, it isn't even a full refill i don't think! Managed to find something online as i can't power up my laptop just now and that says 600-650g :

autototal.ro/dmdocuments/Catalog%20Behr%20Hella.pdf

It opens as a pdf file, pg29 is where it is, 11th line down, Accord Coupé 1998-03.

Your system appeared to be empty, they should have kept it vacc'ed down for a lot longer than 3 minutes and if memory serves correctly you need about 1000g of gas. I'd obviously remembered slightly wrong according to that chart i found after typing, looking at the Accord saloon, that only takes 500-550g so they obviously assumed it was the same. There should be a sticker under the bonnet showing how much gas it needs as well. You can just see it at the bottom of the pic and should have the amount of gas on it :

They probably added just enough gas to get it working, not convinced about the anti-bacterial clean either!

One thing i do agree with is air-con is more economical than driving with the widows open - they will cause extra drag as the car will act like a parachute. If i could remember where i saw it online, there was a test done in the USA between two cars, one driven with thw windows open and the other with them closed but A/C running. To make it fair they swapped roles after checking the fuel used after the outward run. The car using A/C used less fuel than the one with the windows open in each test which took into account two drivers with different driving styles but driving at more or less the same speed over the same distance. It also took into account variations in the models as the cars were identical engines, gearboxes etc.

[kag8]

I thought it was too quick. Where is the sticker? All i can find is aomething that says h134a.

Will have to call them out again and fill it up to 1000 g

[hughezee]

The sticker normally just says H134a from what I've seen and from looks of your basic refill/ regas they have used the UK version spec's as its 600-650g as Dave says, thankfully they require about the same PAG46 oil, so it should be ok for a while assuming they used the correct oil.

[kag8]

Sorry im confused. Should it be 650g or 1000g? If 650g, is missing 100g significant enough to cause an issue?

[Laird_Scooby]

If you have another read of my post Kag i've edited it - possibly a bit confusing but the information is there.

Yours should have 650g of R134a gas in it. What i was thinking of when i said about 1000g was the original 827/Legends that were about 1020g of R12 gas - my mistake, sorry!

If it only has 550g it's a bit under what it should be but will work, certainly for a while anyway.

Need to check the stickers on my beasts, i'm sure it gives the quantity on them or maybe i'm thinking of something totally different!

[kag8]

Ah yes I see. Makes sense now. Have asked them to come round and fill the missing 100g as thats their mistake!

[hughezee]

1 hour ago, kag8 said:

Ah yes I see. Makes sense now. Have asked them to come round and fill the missing 100g as thats their mistake!

Also, ask them to check for any leaks first, condenser & receiver drier areas are the most common, check out the topics linked below for reference.

 

[Mangoman]

I use this chap locally:   http://www.coolrunners-southampton.co.uk/

Have used him on my R75 when I had a leak on the HP Pipe that run down behind the Engine and Bulkhead. He just cut out and replaced a section of offending Pipe.

But prior to that he did a Vacuum check - best way to see it there is a leak. Then flushed out the system and re-vacuumed to test, then refilled with dye and oil. Checked visually and then ran the system on full whilst gauges still connected for a good 20 minutes - had a cuppa in the meantime and watered his dog  -

I reckon he was at location for a good hour+. Cost £90.00 Was still going strong nearly 6 years later when I sold the car!

Called him on the Beemer as it was not coming on. Did a test, couldn't find anything so re filled and tested - all good. Cost: £40.00

But about 3 weeks later no A/C again. So I gathered there must be a really small, undetectable leak so I bought this:  

And invited him around again to aid in doing it for me because obviously I will need some more Gas.

Anyway, he came around within a couple of days, did the business including top-up and didn't even charge me! He considered it a 'come-back' as he didn't originally find the leak in the first place.

I highly recommend him if you live in the area he covers! First class chap.....

 

NB: The A/C was still ice cold when I sold the car, albeit only a few months later.

[hughezee]

While we are on the subject of cold, just had my A.C refreshed as I was feeling a little roughness through the loud pedal when the compressor engaged only very minor. Not doing many miles this year probably didn't help, although when I periodically start the engine I always ran the A.C anyhoo fresh oil and refrigerant all running silky smooth again. Also, I only lost 3g of refrigerant since January last year from my suspected leak around the receiver drier so all is well with my air conditioning

[Kelvin]

Just sat having Spex recharged - hopefully the replacement pressure switch will have sorted everything.

Fingers crossed...

[Kelvin]

Right - it works! 😀

 

ATS for the win it would seem. They pulled the cg2 up on the screen and it listed the right amount of the right gas, which was a good start.

Not gone far in it and it's pretty cold here today but hopefully come summer, the black paint won't kill me again 😂

[Laird_Scooby]

More great news - you'd best do a lucky dip on the lottery today as well then!

On a serious note, stick it on "AUTO" and adjust the temeprature to what you like now and let the system do the rest. It will kick the A/C in and out as and when needed (not when you think it needs it on a hot day but all year round which helps immensely to clear a misted up windscreen!) and keep the system running as it should.

[PTR200S]

28 minutes ago, Kelvin said:

it's pretty cold here today but hopefully come summer

Is it ? ! Here am I thinking its summer , wandering around in teeshirts and sitting in the shade to cool off ! 

Been very much into the 20's this last week , no rain, field ditches are just about dry and the farmers are pumping masses of water from the sluices onto the fields...

and my AC has been on auto most of the winter too, as Dave suggests, keeps it running hunky dory .

[Kelvin]

Hmmm. We'll, it's not working as it should. Ambient air temperature again. Assuming the switch works that Stu gave me, I guess the big round metal box is the problem.

 

Ah well, windows down it is.

[PTR200S]

If its back to normal temp again it could be a gas leak...can you hear the compressor kick in?

If not, check the pressure in the system first before ripping the system to bits !!

[Laird_Scooby]

Can't say i'm surprised, probably just needs a top up with gas and maybe leak sealer then running as much as possible.

When the system is regassed, the gas is added (at pressure) until the compressor kicks in when the remaining gas is added under vacuum. By rights, if they've done it right, it should have been vacced down for at least 20 minutes (preferably 30) so should have been under vacuum when the first gas went in. However the danger is then that the gas will expand and cause the compressor to freeze. It takes the heat from the atmosphere to expand and if it goes from being under pressure in the gas bottle to vacuum in the system, it can expand a lot. More than normal in fact.

Once it's settled in the system (say overnight) it can expand and/or contract to where it needs to be so it's stable for the volume of gas added to the system. More importantly, stable for the volume of the system.

Referring to Boyles Law about the volume of gas according to temperature and how it's all related, despite the correct weight of gas being added, it might not have enough pressure to operate the pressure switches now everything has cooled off.

I'm not sure i'm explaining it that well so i'll leave it at that for now, if it's as clear as mud later just say and i'll try to rephrase it so it actually makes sense!

[hughezee]

3 hours ago, Kelvin said:

Assuming the switch works that Stu gave me

Should the switch be at fault the system wouldn't have worked at all, very likely the system hasn't been pressurized in some time and a seal has gone or the condenser has given up and the pressure has dropped enough for the switch to shut off the system. Personally, I would check the condenser for moisture spots which is located in front of the car's radiator as I have seen this allot and why I decided to replace the one on Mikes motor as it was heavily externally corroded and very likely would have leaked. 

[Kelvin]

One question - 18c is the lowest setting on the V6. That's the temperature I had my central heating when I had a house, t-shirt warm. It's been lower than that here today. Would this explain no cold air coming out?

Turn my girlfriend's AC down to full blue and it's numbing. Is the Honda's climate control different?

[hughezee]

1 hour ago, Kelvin said:

18c is the lowest setting on the V6

Anything below 18 degrees Celsius is cold, especially blowing directly at you for too long would be dangerous IMO, and the A.C system rubber hoses wouldn't last long either 🤣

[Laird_Scooby]

What Stu said is spot on, below 18C is dangerously cold. It's a known fact you can develop hypothermia at 16C but also worth remembering, the A/C will only coool the incoming air by about 10C so if it's 32C outside, the air in the cabin will only get down to about 22C which will still feel like a fridge compared to outside.

[Brett]

My mate in work is a air con engineer and he says a good ac system should cool 10c below outside temp

[PTR200S]

12 hours ago, Kelvin said:

 

Turn my girlfriend's AC down to full blue and it's numbing.

 

Which knob do you turn on her to get that result ?? !!!! 

I dont need to turn a knob, I just get that effect from telling my other half i need to , erm, "invest " in another vehicle...... Blue and numb !    

Seriously, I get only 16C out of the Jag and that is enough , as Brett says 10c off the ambient temperature is good.

[Laird_Scooby]

10 hours ago, Laird_Scooby said:

the A/C will only coool the incoming air by about 10C

 

1 hour ago, Brett said:

air con engineer and he says a good ac system should cool 10c below outside temp

 

44 minutes ago, PTR200S said:

10c off the ambient temperature is good

Three times is the charm! 😛

[Kelvin]

Seeing as it was only 18c outside, maybe that was the issue? If only goes down to 18c I guess. Best wait for hotter weather. 

I've been replacing the three 12v fuseboards on the narrowboat this weekend and not been near the car.

[Laird_Scooby]

It's the cabin temperature that makes the difference. Get the cabin up to 25+C then drop the temp setting to 18C and you'll feel an icy blast if the air-con is still charged up.

 

Don't forget when it's on auto, if it can drop the cabin temp without any air-con, it will do, if the outside air was 18C the chances are it would use that and if it didn't drop the cabin temp quickly enough it would then bring the air-con into play.