ZeroEffort Posted February 23, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2022 3 hours ago, Laird_Scooby said: If they bench test the starters by putting them in a vice, suing a slave battery and a set of jump leads, they should be able to run the motor in the vice. Then use a length of old wood to load the pinion by levering one end on the bench and the other against the pinion. If the unidirectional clutch inside the new pinion is faulty, that will be enough to make it slip. Also count the number of teeth on each pinion as there may have been a difference between auto and manual starters and only found in a tiny footnote somewhere. Why do you need a new torque converter as well? You haven't mentioned any faults with that so far? So they verified both starters are exactly the same and got the car to start as well. It was doing the grinding but tested the new starter and it checked fine. The teeth on the flywheel/torque converter are pretty jacked apparently (they were able to look at it and verify). From what I understand the torque converter on Honda’s is not one that is completely encased, it has a gear ring mounted to the outside. That is the only “flywheel” I could find on an automatic. It is the diagram that hugheze posted above. I am trying to post a picture but I cannot figure out how lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Laird_Scooby Posted February 23, 2022 Moderators Report Share Posted February 23, 2022 Normally the torque converters bolt to the driveplate/flexplate which has the ring gear on, worth double checking that before buying a new torque converter. 11 minutes ago, ZeroEffort said: I am trying to post a picture but I cannot figure out how lol. Goto postimages.org and get yourself a free account. Upload your pics there and then click the "Share" button, when the list of links appears, click the blue button at the end of the "Direct Link" option then paste that in your post where you want the pic to appear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroEffort Posted February 23, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2022 Just now, Laird_Scooby said: Normally the torque converters bolt to the driveplate/flexplate which has the ring gear on, worth double checking that before buying a new torque converter. Goto postimages.org and get yourself a free account. Upload your pics there and then click the "Share" button, when the list of links appears, click the blue button at the end of the "Direct Link" option then paste that in your post where you want the pic to appear. Copy, thank you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators hughezee Posted February 23, 2022 Administrators Report Share Posted February 23, 2022 22 hours ago, hughezee said: you will need to remove the gearbox and replace the torque converter completely as they are balanced and the ring gear cannot be replaced by a normal mechanic as it requires specialist tools. Just for clarification the drive plated bolts to the engine this not driven by the starter motor and the drive plate bolts the to torque converter which is driven by the starter motor if the starter is good and the corresponding teeth, ring gear on the torque converter are damaged you will need to get a new or refurbished torque converter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Laird_Scooby Posted February 23, 2022 Moderators Report Share Posted February 23, 2022 Thanks Stu - i wondered if they had departed from the normal sort of practices with the T/C so it seems he's going to need a reconditioned/new T/C 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Subscriber’s RevvinKevin Posted February 23, 2022 Site Subscriber’s Report Share Posted February 23, 2022 On 2/22/2022 at 5:25 PM, hughezee said: you will need to remove the gearbox and replace the torque converter completely as they are balanced and the ring gear cannot be replaced by a normal mechanic as it requires specialist tools. As Stu had already stated. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroEffort Posted June 5, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2023 So here's an update on this whole situation, almost a year and a half later. Based on what you all suggested here I had asked them if the had eyes on the flex plate and saw that teeth were missing. They told me yes so I went about searching for a torque converter. The motor lasted 6 months before seizing and burning out. The shop said the starter would be covered under warranty so I continued to look for a torque converter. I finally found one and discovered there is a guy here in Germany who works on JDMs. When I went to the shop to get the starter, it was not the part they originally installed, it was completely different than any of the starters I've seen. I told them it's different and they said that's what it shows in the system. So I brought it to the other mechanics shop and told them it's probably wrong. They removed the starter and told me it was incorrect and they are ordering one through Honda. They also told me the torque converter/flywheel/flex plate is not missing any teeth. So the originally shop not only lied about verifying the part number originally, but also lied about teeth missing. Now once I left this other shop I was driving to my house and I lost all electronics/gauges in my car but the engine stayed running. Since the car was sitting for over.six months without starting I figured it could be a battery or alternator. I had my battery charged and tested and it passed fine (I had the battery replaced Feb 2022). I drove the car for a day and I started losing electronics again, so with the engine running disconnected the negative terminal and the engine died. I ordered and just replaced the alternator but the issue is still happening. I can jump the car, but as soon as I disconnect the cables the gps goes out first, then my gauges, but the engine will stay running. Does anyone have any ideas. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Laird_Scooby Posted June 5, 2023 Moderators Report Share Posted June 5, 2023 1 hour ago, ZeroEffort said: Does anyone have any ideas. Yes, disconnect the battery earth cable and put the battery on trickle charge. Next, get yourself some fine emery paper or wet'n'dry (do NOT use ordinary sandpaper!) and go through the fuseboxes, removing each fuse in turn and clean the blades with the abrasive paper. Refit but pull and refit the fuse several times as you refit each one to clean the fusebox contacts. Once you've done ALL the blade fuses you can find, take the battery off charge and reconnect the earth. Turn the key to KP2 (Key Position2) and ensure the charge warning light illuminates. Also check all other lights that should come on with KP2 are on and then start the car, take it for a test drive but not too far until you're sure this has cured the problem. My theory behind this is that one or more of the fuses have got corrosion on the blades, this is becoming more common as our cars get older and while they pass enough current to start with to operate the various consumers, as they are on, the resistance caused by the corrosion increases with heat which then causes more resistance and hence more heat. Eventually the resistance is too high for the consumer(s) to function. The GPS takes more power than the instruments as a general rule of thumb, hence why this goes earlier than the instruments. As for the P0325 Knock Sensor fault, has anyone done anything about this yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroEffort Posted June 5, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2023 1 hour ago, Laird_Scooby said: As for the P0325 Knock Sensor fault, has anyone done anything about this yet? Yes, I got the knock sensor replaced in February 2022. I should add that I definitely need to replace my positive terminal because it is as tight as it will get and it's loose. I thought this could be the issue but if I remove it from the battery it kills the engine so it is making contact. So I will be replacing it, I just don't think it is the cause. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Laird_Scooby Posted June 5, 2023 Moderators Report Share Posted June 5, 2023 16 minutes ago, ZeroEffort said: I should add that I definitely need to replace my positive terminal because it is as tight as it will get and it's loose. I thought this could be the issue but if I remove it from the battery it kills the engine so it is making contact. So I will be replacing it, I just don't think it is the cause. It could well be the "be all and end all" of the problem! If the alternator can't sense the battery voltage, it won't charge properly so will stop charging - also you should NEVER disconnect the battery of an alternator equipped vehicle with the engine runnng as it can damage the alternator and also the ECUs of which there are many on your car! It causes voltage spikes known as transients and they can kill ECUs either instantly or sometimes a long, slowm lingering death with many weird and (not so) wonderful faults along the way! A neighbour of mine bought a Ford Kugs a couple of years back, unbeknown to him it had previously been jump started with a boost-charger (the kind that give an extra 400A or so for starting) and the transients for that damaged several ECUs. Obviously by the time the ECUs died, it was out of warranty and cost him nearly £2k at "mates rates" to have it fixed using secondhand ECUs and getting them reprogrammed to the car! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroEffort Posted June 11, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2023 On 6/5/2023 at 5:42 PM, Laird_Scooby said: It could well be the "be all and end all" of the problem! If the alternator can't sense the battery voltage, it won't charge properly so will stop charging - also you should NEVER disconnect the battery of an alternator equipped vehicle with the engine runnng as it can damage the alternator and also the ECUs of which there are many on your car! It causes voltage spikes known as transients and they can kill ECUs either instantly or sometimes a long, slowm lingering death with many weird and (not so) wonderful faults along the way! A neighbour of mine bought a Ford Kugs a couple of years back, unbeknown to him it had previously been jump started with a boost-charger (the kind that give an extra 400A or so for starting) and the transients for that damaged several ECUs. Obviously by the time the ECUs died, it was out of warranty and cost him nearly £2k at "mates rates" to have it fixed using secondhand ECUs and getting them reprogrammed to the car! I bought terminal connectors, however I never realized before this point that for Japanese vehicles the battery terminals are smaller, so I ended up needing to purchase shims. I used the shim and the same old connector and made it fit tightly on the battery. The alternator seemed to be charging the battery, however after about 30 min it stopped charging, the battery voltage dropped from about 11.9v to approximately 7.9v. I swapped the ACG fuse just to check even though it looked good, checked the ignition relay, and the main battery relay and they also looked good, super clean honestly. Also, with a multimeter I checked how much voltage was being pulled at the positive connector by pulling it off (engine not running), and it was reading .194 and gradually went down to about .15, barely anything, so I do not think I have a parasitic drain. The only thing I can think of now is the exciter cable from the alternator to the battery, but without taking a bunch apart and can’t get a good look at it. A co-worker of mine said that he had a Ford with alternator issues once. He ordered an alternator from AutoZone or O’Reilly’s, someplace like that and the issues stayed. He called Ford and apparently they have a proprietary voltage regulator so the one he bought was not going to work and had to order it through Ford. I do not think this is the case for this vehicle because I can’t seem to find anything on it, and the part number the store here ordered was the one I got off the old part. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Laird_Scooby Posted June 11, 2023 Moderators Report Share Posted June 11, 2023 There should be two fuses that are related to the charging control and another big one related to the alternator output - this is one of the big wire link fuses in the underbonnet fusebox, usually rated at 100A. Does the charge warning light come on with KP2 before you start the engine? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroEffort Posted June 12, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2023 12 hours ago, Laird_Scooby said: There should be two fuses that are related to the charging control and another big one related to the alternator output - this is one of the big wire link fuses in the underbonnet fusebox, usually rated at 100A. Does the charge warning light come on with KP2 before you start t 12 hours ago, Laird_Scooby said: There should be two fuses that are related to the charging control and another big one related to the alternator output - this is one of the big wire link fuses in the underbonnet fusebox, usually rated at 100A. Does the charge warning light come on with KP2 before you start the engine? On mine the large ones are 120a/40a and then the ignition is 50/50. Also, the charge warning light does not illuminate. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroEffort Posted June 12, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2023 Sorry I did not mean to quote you twice 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Laird_Scooby Posted June 12, 2023 Moderators Report Share Posted June 12, 2023 2 hours ago, ZeroEffort said: Also, the charge warning light does not illuminate. That's probably a lot of the problem! Without having a wiring diagram for the Elysion i have no idea which fuse it will be, however you should find a fuse in the cabin fusebox marked "Instruments", "Charging", "Alternator" or something along those lines - check and perhaps even change that on a hunch. Should bring up the charge warning light on KP2 with the engine off. The warning light should go out when the engine starts, like all other cars. Do you have a 12V test lamp at all? If the fuse doesn't fix things, you'll need one for diagnostics on the charging system 2 hours ago, ZeroEffort said: Sorry I did not mean to quote you twice No worries! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PTR200S Posted June 12, 2023 Moderators Report Share Posted June 12, 2023 This might help.. https://fuseandrelay.com/honda/elysion-1.html And make sure those battery terminals are actually secured PROPERLY, it does cause problems in the Elysion...just like the JLR stuff !!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Laird_Scooby Posted June 12, 2023 Moderators Report Share Posted June 12, 2023 Thanks Pete - with that extra knowledge, i'd be looking at fuses 8, 19 and 20 in the cabin fusebox and 22 in the underbonnet fusebox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroEffort Posted June 12, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2023 4 hours ago, Laird_Scooby said: Thanks Pete - with that extra knowledge, i'd be looking at fuses 8, 19 and 20 in the cabin fusebox and 22 in the underbonnet fusebox. So of those the only one I didn’t check previously was 8. 19 did not have a fuse on it, but that actually says option 2 not ignition. I swapped te fuse in 20 and checked fuse 22, thats the 120/40 one. I also checked 23 in the underbonnet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Laird_Scooby Posted June 13, 2023 Moderators Report Share Posted June 13, 2023 Have you checked fuse 8 now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroEffort Posted June 13, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2023 14 hours ago, Laird_Scooby said: Have you checked fuse 8 now? Not yet, I had to leave for a work trip so I won't be checking until Friday. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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