Moderators Laird_Scooby Posted September 14, 2015 Moderators Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 Me, not the car! Been trying to fit a new front pipe to my coupe for about a fortnight now - you'd think it would be fairly straight forward, remove the nuts on the front of the decat box, remove the nuts on the manifold flanges, drop the old one and reverse the procedure and job done, right? Wrong!!! in common with many other jobs on the coupe, it has been bodged in the past, this time by Kwik-Fit and i have their admission of guilt (receipt) somewhere to prove it! The threads on all the manifold to downpipe flange studs has been stripped. Managed to remove/replace 2 studs from the front manifold, the new ones hold nicely. However.................... .................the remaining stud in the front manifold and all 3 studs in the rear manifold resolutely refuse to budge! I've tried a Laser Eccentric cam type stud remover, a Beta Tools Roller Type stud remover and so far have shifted the studs precisely 0 degrees of rotation! Incidentally, the roller type one disintegrated after trying it on the fourth stud and spewed its innards out! Obviously done the WD40 thing on them, tried warming the manifolds up by running the engine and still no joy. Any ideas that i haven't thought of?? Getting to the point where i think i'll have to remove the manifolds which is a whole new can of worms and take it into the shed/workshop, get the blowlamp on the stud/flange and be extremely brutal like maybe weld a nut on it and give that a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators hughezee Posted September 14, 2015 Administrators Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 Sounds exhausting m8, I've snapped a few nuts on spring pressure joins on the 7th generation accords the threads are so small and plenty of heat or penetrating lube and still snap "boll**ks and removing the manifold and drilling it out was the only option as time is never on my side with these kinda jobs sorry I'm no help on any other suggestions 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Laird_Scooby Posted September 14, 2015 Author Moderators Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 Thanks Stu - in fact that was helpful as it means i've "exhausted" all the possibilities except either welding a nut onto each stud in situ and then trying to remove it or remove the manifolds and doing it in the relative comfort (at least i'd be upright - ish) of the shed. It's a radiator out job to remove the front manifold, dread to think how i'm going to get access to the rear one but there's more room to get at it from underneath - just! Half contemplating if i have to remove the manifolds to just go the whole hog and replace them with http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150393548979?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT By the time i've pigged about removing and renewing studs etc in the cast iron fanimolds i might be somewhere near it in terms of time and materials! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators hughezee Posted September 14, 2015 Administrators Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 Shiny headers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Laird_Scooby Posted September 14, 2015 Author Moderators Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 Terminates a pair of parrots with one missile! Also gives me a few more horses and a nice sound too with a bit of luck. As always though it's the same story - funds, or lack of! Needs much more thinking time i think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Founding Member Cryistic Posted September 15, 2015 Founding Member Report Share Posted September 15, 2015 Get it really hot with a butane torch? Also stop using WD40 and get some plusgas, it works so much better. You could try some freeze spray on the stud as well, though this can make it brittle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welland99 Posted September 15, 2015 Report Share Posted September 15, 2015 If you decide to try to get the manifolds off, and then encounter difficulty there, you always have the fallback strategy of removing the heads! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Laird_Scooby Posted September 15, 2015 Author Moderators Report Share Posted September 15, 2015 Thanks Richie - forgot to mention i've also been using this stuff too : http://www.amazon.co.uk/Freeze-Aerosol-Shock-Freeze-Release-Lubricant/dp/B00TQTLXK2/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1442303049&sr=8-3&keywords=crack+it Sparingly i hasten to add! Two reasons, first is the cost - it's expensive on a "pence per squirt" basis and second i don't want to make the stud or manifold brittle. The trouble is with using it is that it also shrinks (freezes) the manifold as well as the stud. As for the Plusgas/WD40/umpteen other similar fluids, i'll try and find some Plusgas but i don't hold out a great deal of hope, either of finding it or of it actually doing the job. It's good stuff, as is WD40, Combat 88, AC90, GT85 etc and all seem to have their individual merits/strengths on different jobs. That said i have a nasty suspicion i'll have to remove the manifolds and then use the blowlamp on them to shift the studs. Meanwhile i'll take a trundle into my nearest town later and see what i can find, whether it's Plusgas or some more freeze spray stuff as there's very little of the Crack It left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Laird_Scooby Posted September 15, 2015 Author Moderators Report Share Posted September 15, 2015 If you decide to try to get the manifolds off, and then encounter difficulty there, you always have the fallback strategy of removing the heads! Decapitation has crossed my mind - not necessarily for the engine but for the clowns at Kwik-Fit that did the damage in the first place. As it goes, i do plan on removing the heads but not for a year or two yet. The general plan is to do a decoke/top end overhaul and depending on the condition of the bores/rings at the time, maybe do the bottom end too. In the meantime i want to be able to use it so need to get these studs sorted. Very miffed about the roller type stud remover collapsing as i waited over a week for it thanks to the postie being ill round here then it lasted only a short while and didn't shift any of the studs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Laird_Scooby Posted September 15, 2015 Author Moderators Report Share Posted September 15, 2015 Bit of an update here - went into my local auto factors today and tried to get some Plusgas and some more freezer/penetrating spray. No joy on either! The were out of stock on the Plusgas and no longer stock the freezer spray as it has a "Use By" date. Could be why my Crack-It didn't do much! Apparently they got their fingers burned (freezer burned??? :lol: ) because they bought a load that was close to its use by date and ended up unable to sell it. Many other places no longer stock it for the same reason. However, they did have one of these in stock : http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0012M9JP2?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_1&smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE I didn't buy it then and there, preferring to come home and investigate it online first. After finding only good things (including someone who had used it on 40+ year old Land Rover exhaust manifold studs) i've decided when i next go in there i will pick one up. Meanwhile i'll hunt online for some in-date freezer/penetrating oil spray and some either Plusgfas or the new "Specialist WD40" which allegedly is a turbo-charged version of good ol' WD40. Those studs are coming out, come hell or high water!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators hughezee Posted September 15, 2015 Administrators Report Share Posted September 15, 2015 Never give up never surrender, so wish I lived closer to you buddy we would have your motors ship shape up the ziggurat lickety-split 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welland99 Posted September 15, 2015 Report Share Posted September 15, 2015 Never give up never surrender, A good quote for Battle of Britain day! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Laird_Scooby Posted September 16, 2015 Author Moderators Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 Thanks for the thought Stu and it would indeed be good! As for the never give up, never surrender - there was something Springsteen-esque about that : https://youtu.be/MD3DdskaPhs Depending on the weather and how i feel tomorrow i'll go and get that impact stud remover. Then it will be surrender or die for the studs!!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Laird_Scooby Posted September 16, 2015 Author Moderators Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 Well i bought the impact stud remover today and then the heavens opened! As yet obviously i've not tried it but here's a description of how it works/what it is and i think it should do the job! Basically if you imagine a drill chuck that works in reverse it's that. In other words, as you turn the input shaft, the jaws close instead of open. Turning in reverse coincidentally is the correct way to unscrew the studs. Now imagine the input shaft has a 1/2" square drive capable of withstanding an impact driver aka windy gun.So we're nearly there in the description - the jaws in the chuck aren't like a drill chuck, they have teeth! BIG teeth!!! As the action of trying to undo the stud will tighten the chuck, the stud appears to have no option but to move! I hope!!! It does warn against using heat and/or lubricant in the instructions. Apparntly the heat can cause the jaws to become fragile and obviously the lubricant might cause them to slip or maybe cause the tightening mechanism to slip. If i do use lube then it will be a case of a while before i try it and then again shortly before. I'll wipe the stud of any excess just in case but i'm feeling positive about this wee gadget. It can be driven either with a 1/2" square drive or a 24mm socket and the chuck body has a hex machined on it to facilitate removing the stud from the tool once it is out. The flats on this hex appear to be about 36mm across so gives an idea of the physical size of it. If it works as good as it looks and feels then i will have the exhaust sorted in about half an hour! Still got at least 4 studs to fit (and 4 to remove!) and bought another 6 nuts yesterday too, just to be on the safe side! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Founding Member Cryistic Posted September 17, 2015 Founding Member Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 Quick squirt of carb cleaner would degrease the stud threads pretty well I should think, I looked at the extractor yesterday and it looks a good bit of kit.. Good luck with the studs and the weather today! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Laird_Scooby Posted September 17, 2015 Author Moderators Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 Thanks Richie - so far so good with the weather, just moved the coupe to let the sun get at the tarmac where i'll be laying. I do have an old rug/mat about 6' x 5' ish to put down before laying underneath but letting it dry naturally will help first.Once i've got it on the ramps this morning i'm going to douse the studs in the penetrating oil i picked up yesterday. It's one i've never heard of so you might think i've taken leave of my senses but there is logic in my lunacy. I've come across several things like this in the past and basically they are the "bottlers" own brew/blend of the best ingredients sold at a better price than the best of the rest because they can. As such i've either done myself a massive favour or i've screwed up - i'll find out later!While it soaks in, i'm going to bring the compressor out of the shed and down to the car and run it on an extension lead from the house. This means the wind won't be going through 25-30m of hose before it gets to the windy gun, just 5m of curly hose so will hopefully have a bit more grunt. Then it's the moment of truth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Laird_Scooby Posted September 17, 2015 Author Moderators Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators hughezee Posted September 17, 2015 Administrators Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 Good news I take it buddy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Laird_Scooby Posted September 17, 2015 Author Moderators Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 Good news I take it buddy The four studs of defeat! Defeat for the manifolds anyway! Not a particularly good picture but you can see the jaws inside the chuck. Just when the studs thought it was safe to get stuck in the manifold..............The harder you work the tool, the tighter it grips so the tighter it grips, the harder you can work it. As far as i can see, the only option is for the stud to surrender, especially when there's an air impact wench hammering on it! The one stud in the front manifold came out relatively easily and the new one went in the same. The 3 studs in the rear manifold were more of a challenge and once i got them out, i ran a tap through the holes. This took a bit of doing, i think the holes had closed up slightly, perhaps because of corrosion. Once the new studs were in, i slapped about half a tin of copper grease on the gaskets, studs and flanges and bolted everything up finger tight. Then got the air ratchet on them all and squeezed the trigger - wheee-irrrrr -bmmf, bmmf! Nine times! Then turned the key and waited for the sound of chuffing. Happily there was none! It's now the quietest and smoothest it's ever been in my ownership. Looking back at how rough it ran when i first got it, that is honestly a major achievement. The new anti roll bar, bushes and drop links have also improved matters but there is still some work to be done before i can take it any distance. For example, a replacement pair of front struts to fit as the front end is getting very light and "floaty" at speed and the braking/steering isn't quite what it should be. Also a new rear spring to go on - this goes back about a year when i was having fun renewing the rear shocks and i deliberately didn't fit the nearside rear spring, just refitted the original (weak) spring. There was a good reason at the time, after all i had already fitted the other new spring, i just can't remember the reason now! There is also the small matter of a leak that has appeared on the left hand side of the radiator. Not coolant, no, nothing that simple! It's ATF just to make life interesting! Oh yeah, and the tracking is out again! But for now, the exhaust is done. If at any time in the future it needs to come off again, having copper greased all the joints and threads it should be a lot easier than this time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Founding Member Cryistic Posted September 17, 2015 Founding Member Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 Great news Dave, which car are you driving to the club meet in , is that going to be the coupes first long distance run?The laser tool looks like a decent bit of kit, might have to see about picking one up and keeping it in the kit at home. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Laird_Scooby Posted September 17, 2015 Author Moderators Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 Thanks Richie. Assuming i can make it (suspension work etc still needs doing and i need to check that leak on the rad/ATF cooler) then it will be the coupe. The Sterling was meant to be having a holiday in the garage while i sorted the steering rack and front suspension problems on that - they are more in depth as i need to make some of the parts! I'm very impressed with the Laser tool, it was like a Terminator for reluctant studs, it just kept going! I'd say it's worth it's weight in gold but i don't know the current price of gold or the weight of the tool. That said, i think at £24 from my local factors it was well worth it! Amazon are a couple of quid cheaper but i bought it locally as firstly there is a postal problem here at the moment and after recent experiences with other stud removers that die then spew their innards out, i wanted to be able to take it back if it committed hara-kiri. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Founding Member Retro Rich Posted September 19, 2015 Founding Member Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 The four studs of defeat! Defeat for the manifolds anyway! Not a particularly good picture but you can see the jaws inside the chuck. Just when the studs thought it was safe to get stuck in the manifold.............. The harder you work the tool, the tighter it grips so the tighter it grips, the harder you can work it. As far as i can see, the only option is for the stud to surrender, especially when there's an air impact wench hammering on it! The one stud in the front manifold came out relatively easily and the new one went in the same. The 3 studs in the rear manifold were more of a challenge and once i got them out, i ran a tap through the holes. This took a bit of doing, i think the holes had closed up slightly, perhaps because of corrosion. This tool sounds like a must for any mechanic or enthusiast working on cars. For the price, I will be adding it to my Christmas wish list :-) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Laird_Scooby Posted September 19, 2015 Author Moderators Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 Not just cars Rich', any engineering environment i would think!.The jaws are a consumable part and as such not guaranteed but the main tool is although firstly i don't know you'd ever manage to break it and secondly, even with jaws you have to pay to replace, it's still a cheap solution to a very old problem. Given that my other option was a pair of replacement manifolds it was cheaper than those and i still have it to do other jobs with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Founding Member Mazda Man Posted September 30, 2015 Founding Member Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 You can never use too much lube David! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Laird_Scooby Posted September 30, 2015 Author Moderators Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 Oooo-errr missus!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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