Hello all, possible Elysion owner again!

[Scoobydo]

Long story but did purchase an Elysion but it turned out a Lemon due to electrical gremlins that the dealer could not fix. Claims it was fixed three times but same fault came back. Fourth fix was assured everything was fine but no evidence of canbus low error being fixed so had to demand refund 😞

 

This is my current MPV

[PTR200S]

Presume it wasn't a lemon originally but whatever the dealer did to it caused the problems?

Did you buy it newly imported or "s/hand" from the first imported owner ?

[Laird_Scooby]

Welcome aboard the good ship Honda 6!

[Scoobydo]

Hi I was the first uk owner. The car played up during test drive but was blamed on battery/ecu reset. New battery put on and codes reset and off i drove to last 5miles only before taking the vehicle back. Tried to pick the vehicle up 3x thereafter and still same problem despite being told fixed. Final straw was when told fixed again but would not tell me if canbus low error had indeed been fixed or just cleared for it to pop up again. Car now is still showing mot expired Jan 2020 so has not been recomissioned so doubt it has been fixed still!

[hughezee]

On 3/6/2021 at 11:02 PM, Scoobydo said:

Long story but did purchase an Elysion but it turned out a Lemon due to electrical gremlins that the dealer could not fix

Welcome to Honda 6, sorry to hear of your bad experiences, but look on the brightside, you didn't get lumbered with it...🖐️ So playing the percentages and given Hondas never really have electrical problems without some form of inexperienced human intervention.😡

Nevertheless, I think we have all had at least one lemon in our life, so feel free to share the spec you are after ask us any questions and I am sure you will find the right one.👍🤞

[RevvinKevin]

7 hours ago, Scoobydo said:

Car now is still showing mot expired Jan 2020 so has not been recomissioned so doubt it has been fixed still

Think we need to be aware of the reg & colour etc. In case it does reappear in the market place

[Scoobydo]

If it does and it is fixed I will purchase it 🙂

[PTR200S]

21 minutes ago, Scoobydo said:

If it does and it is fixed I will purchase it 🙂

Why would you want to risk it ???

18 months?????  and still not resolved  WALK AWAY, better ones out there. 

[Scoobydo]

I think there was a problem with the AFS likely rear load sensor as I have yet to find a wiring diagram not sure if that is canbus low or just standard I/O. Just needed someone familiar with the vehicles to sort. I did offer but dealer would not accept my terms and wanted his "mechanics" to fix. Would ensure purchase via credit so if any problems then will use that avenue for refund.  The 18 months of "ownership" probably done less than 5 miles and was always straight back to the dealer which wasnt far given the total distance travelled:-)

[Laird_Scooby]

What Pete said ^^^^^!!!

Asking the obvious - did it have any aftermarket electrical add-ons such as a towbar, amplifiers, lights etc that weren't OE kit or Honda aftermarket kit?

[Scoobydo]

No nothing aftermarket, as far as I could see. The AFS and anti lock brake light warning triangle came up and VSA on the dashboard as well as the speedo and rev counter cutting out and AC and auto door stopped working when it played up. Pull battery off and normall service resumed. First time it happened dealer just cleared fault codes and didn't make a note. His snap on reader or possibly autech couldnt calibrate the VSa. Told him how to do it manually but it still is have played up and he got someone with HDS to look at it. This person said it was all clear apart from canbus low but had no diagrams to work with but not sure how good this guy was. Never heard back from this guy but dealer said someone else looked at it and was just a loose connection on instrument cluster. However by now lost all faith in lies from the dealer and he would not warrant that no canbus low errors (read didnt want to pay again for someone to scan properly after many engine cycles). At this point lost faith for time being. 

[Scoobydo]

BTW there was a recall in Japan for this year on the VSA modulator believe was due to bad soldering. This perhaps was root cause but thought VSA was on canbus high? Just cannot find much info on the vehicle, could well have been like it when it was auctioned just wasnt picked up as likely reset was carried out before inspection. Did seem that it would play up after a few drive cycles

[Laird_Scooby]

CANBus uses both high and low states to transmit data. The big trouble is, with such a rare vehicle knowledge on the exact protocols of the CANBus system are limited and if the VSA module has a recall in Japan, there's a fair chance that's what is causing your problem. Whether you could get Honda Japan to send the parts to a Honda dealer here for fitting is another matter, also whether Honda Japan would trust Honda UK to fit it correctly and/or have the correct software for it is another matter.

If only they'd known back in the 1980s when I2C was first created that it would breed these problems they would probably have strangled it at birth. Seemed like a good idea at the time though but in fairness I2C was a bit more like VoIP in how it worked, just two wires running round the whole network, the data was super-imposed on it to select the devices needed to work. To explain the analogy of VoIP being similar to I2C, you can use internet with only two wires (in theory at least) and the voice audio is super-imposed over the internet signals essentially making the cables dual function. The way I2C works carries the power on two cables and the signal super-imposed on those two cables selects the device to work - obvioulsy makes each device more complex but you get the idea.

[Scoobydo]

There is a company in the UK that repairs the VSA modules. I thought the Honda used a can high and can low system. TBF as never spent anytime with the vehicle it was all left to the dealer to sort with his "mechanics / auto electricians" as he liked to call them. I think of CAN as multiplexing, get the voip thing with QOS priority for RTP packets to sit above other less important traffic which where I thought there was two canbus systems on the Honda but maybe the can low error just referenced the low side of a single can system rather than two discrete buses.

 

[Scoobydo]

Flind this as well for the date of the MLIT recall notify. Tks for all the comments.

 

https://www.autoblog.com/2013/03/14/honda-recalling-183k-cars-and-crossovers-over-unintended-braking/

[Laird_Scooby]

6 minutes ago, Scoobydo said:

I think of CAN as multiplexing

There are certain similarities but with CAN there is 2-way (duplex) communication between device and controller. With MPXing, the controller simply switches the deivices on in turn, usually for a short period of time then switches the next device on or off, the next one the same and so on.

One of the nicest applications of MPXing was actually called "Time Division Multiplexing" by the manufacturer. It was part of a PBX system with anything up to 64 ports that could be configured for incoming lines or extensions. For example, it could have 16 incoming lines and 48 extensions, 32 lines and 32 extensions - you get the idea.

To minimise component count and cost, each branch of 8 ports used one duplex audio chip and 8 way digitally switched audio switches. The internal clock ran an octal counter to sequentially select these switches and feed them through the audio chip in sequence so each channel still appeared to the human ear to have full connection but in fact each only had 1/8th of the time but the transition was so fast between each switch that it didn't make any difference to audio quality.

From there the outputs were configured by the software to send the audio to either the line in use or the other extension for an internal call, again using a similar system.

CANBus could do the same but with a much lower component count and increased complexity of switching etc. The big thing is that the MPX only switched the devices in and out as described above whereas the CANBus basicaly asked each time if they needed serving and passed if not then asked again on the next cycle - could have improved audio quality further in that application but for chronological context, I2C had only just been invented at this time and CANBus was still just the embryo of a dream in a designers mind. In other words, late 80s/early 90s.

[Scoobydo]

You from a telecom background =snap. Started with ISDX back in 80's 🙂

[PTR200S]

Not going to join this conversation , getting over complicated!!

My advice, Scoobydo ;

Don't waste your time trying to overthink the solution, don't spend anytime discussing it with the dealer, its THEIR PROBLEM. 

Life is too short and you should be out on the road (if we can ever get there !) and therefore, as I said,  WALK AWAY, find another one.

The dealer may well have caused the problem to start with, not necessarily a Honda problem.?..?...I just don't understand your persistence in chasing this lost cause, the lemon as you put it, except to satisfy yourself you were right.

You obviously have the zeal to track and resolve problems but starting from a higher baseline than the tosser dealer who seems knows nothing , from your comments, would be time spent on an easier life !!!!!

 

 

 

 

[Laird_Scooby]

8 hours ago, Scoobydo said:

You from a telecom background =snap.

Electrical & Electronic Engineering, the apprenticeship i did means i can technically put letters after my name (not that i've ever bothered) and also covered me for mechanical engineering. Also went on afterwards and gained a Diploma in Automotive Electrical Systems and another in basic refrigeration. Spent some time at SDX at Welwyn in ~1992 for product training on the SDX phone system and also worked for a small company who made their own system in Hampshire and another more sales-oriented role (Engineering Sales) which is where i was when i went to SDX.

Hence the analogy and differences between CANBus and MPXing.

6 hours ago, PTR200S said:

Don't waste your time trying to overthink the solution, don't spend anytime discussing it with the dealer, its THEIR PROBLEM. 

I'm with Pete on this one, while it's nice to get to the bottom of a problem and find a resolution, without the necessary protocols and a CANBus analyser and being able to view live data as the fault happens, you'll get nowhere near the problem.

[Scoobydo]

SDx if I remember they had a 4 wire system that you use to get tramping on the line (feint ticking)if wired incorrectly. 

The car would only touch again if it came up for sale and was fixed with a nice long warranty and would purchase via credit card.

Really was a nice example and once fixed sure it will serve someone well. Likely never going to be up for sale again as they are out there depth unless it was just a loose connection on the cluster but would have thought an MOT would have been put on the car and sold on.

 

As you say something else will come up 🙂

 

 

 

[Laird_Scooby]

37 minutes ago, Scoobydo said:

SDx if I remember they had a 4 wire system that you use to get tramping on the line (feint ticking)if wired incorrectly. 

Nah, 6-wire system which confused the customers if they had an FT1 as it looked exactly the same as the BT Viscount i think it was called and they couldn't understand why the spare one from home wouldn't just plug in and work.

For a start the sockets were the opposite way round with the release tab the other end to prevent that happening, second the faint ticking sounds like an SLC fault but could be other problems too. Long time since i was involved with them now so only going from memory.

42 minutes ago, Scoobydo said:

The car would only touch again if it came up for sale and was fixed

I wouldn't even touch it then, if it can go wrong once like that there's every chance other faults could develop too.

Look round for something better and add it to your experience.

[Scoobydo]

yeah flooding back 6 wire or 3 pair if from telephone rentals days :-). Remember going through the programming on the programming terminal phone. 

 

 

[Laird_Scooby]

I never got involved with programming, two reasons, one i've never been any good with software and second, that was down to the field guys who did the installs, maintenance/repairs, upgrades and so on.

Most telephony cables of that size are usually 4-pair, each pair twisted and laid up so the crossover points were staggered against the other pairs to minimise crosstalk and distortion. Fascinating watching them being made especially from a pile of copper wires and copolymer, through the extruders to create the single wires, 8 wires into a lay up machine that first created the twisted pairs then laid them up in 4 twisted pairs then through the last extruder to put the outer insulation on - if a screen was required this was added at the correct stage(s) then once through the last extruder onto a large cable drum ready for dispatch.

The bonus of 4 twisted pairs is there's usualy a spare pair in case of breakages in the cable - saves running a whole new line from the NTTP to the DP or worse.