Moderators PTR200S Posted October 20, 2022 Author Moderators Report Share Posted October 20, 2022 15 hours ago, Laird_Scooby said: Besides Pauls advice above Pete, i'm guessing the alernator is a Nippon-Denso unit? If so, try disconnecting the battery lead from the alternator overnight (don't forget to reconnect before driving off!) and wrapping some insulation tape over the end of the lead for safety. Why you may ask? Simple, it seems, both from my personal experience with the Sterling and from other cars i've known with intermittent current drains/charging problems, therre is a problem with many of the recifier packs in N-D alternators. Why i don't know, i just know it happens. Disconnecting the battery overnight will eliminate this as the fault, if it still goes flat it's not the alternator. Another tell-tale is the alternator gets warm (hot with a capital F!) without the engine running or sometimes very soon after starting - warmer than it has any right to get. Yep, that's a possible if this fuse doesn't pan out....its buried in the engine bay so big job, can't even get a hand down to fondle its casing 😛🤣🤣 Of course it could be still the alternator as even with this fuse pulled its at 0.11 amp....although it is an old meter could be out.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Laird_Scooby Posted October 20, 2022 Moderators Report Share Posted October 20, 2022 15 minutes ago, PTR200S said: haven't gone any further yet because the fuse is marked "backup" it's a 10amp. The owners jap manual confirms "backup" but doesn't specify its use. Backup lamps as in reverse lamps Pete. 17 minutes ago, PTR200S said: Bloody hell !!! 0.68 amps !! or 680 milliamp....way, way over 30 to 50 ish I would expect. Definitely pulling way too much! Sometimes if you broke the circuit between -ve terminal and battery post, it takes a few minutes to settle to the"real" draw but it sounds like you were in there for a while anyway. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PTR200S Posted October 20, 2022 Author Moderators Report Share Posted October 20, 2022 40 minutes ago, Laird_Scooby said: Backup lamps as in reverse lamps Pete. Definitely pulling way too much! Sometimes if you broke the circuit between -ve terminal and battery post, it takes a few minutes to settle to the"real" draw but it sounds like you were in there for a while anyway. Yes hits around 750 before dropping to 680...obviously with fuse pulled just 110..... No, not reverse lamps, all OK, it's turns out it controls the central locking !!!!! Hmm, backup, central locking...durr. Next check was to see if it was the smart card or the actual locks..using a key eliminates the card and still no locking.... A final check I will do tomorrow is to lock the can , leave it to settle and check if its still the same..... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators hughezee Posted October 20, 2022 Administrators Report Share Posted October 20, 2022 28 minutes ago, PTR200S said: A final check I will do tomorrow is to lock the can , leave it to settle and check if its still the same..... 🤞 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PTR200S Posted October 20, 2022 Author Moderators Report Share Posted October 20, 2022 Just wondering now if the act of pushing the "stay open" button on the dash causes the problem as that's how I have been testing it...hence the thinking on the possibility if it is locked it actually shuts down properly...of course the central locking could be screwed, drawing too much current, possibly not locking fully on one solenoid...or the relay is shot ??😭 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PTR200S Posted October 24, 2022 Author Moderators Report Share Posted October 24, 2022 Development as of this morning,,,,I left the "back up" fuse out two days ago, voltage dropped from 12.6 to 12.45 in 24 hrs...draw was somewhere between 110ma and 95ma. Decided to pull more fuses, draw dropped to 20ma when the interior lighting fuse was pulled...just where it should be ... Both fuses back in and big draw, pulling one at a time proved there are TWO problems,the draw dropping back to 20ma., 😭😭😭 Decided to pull the driver and passenger doors footlights...checked again still same draw, about 95ma. The interior lights are turned off on the console so only the door lights involved..rear hatch turned off too..that just leaves the sliding doors...are the door lights still on ???? Or is it a fault in an led bulb??? Central locking is another day..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Laird_Scooby Posted October 24, 2022 Moderators Report Share Posted October 24, 2022 5 hours ago, PTR200S said: Decided to pull the driver and passenger doors footlights...checked again still same draw, about 95ma. The interior lights are turned off on the console so only the door lights involved..rear hatch turned off too..that just leaves the sliding doors...are the door lights still on ???? Or is it a fault in an led bulb??? Interior light timer perhaps Pete? I've known them to give trouble similar in the past but on other makes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PTR200S Posted October 24, 2022 Author Moderators Report Share Posted October 24, 2022 35 minutes ago, Laird_Scooby said: Interior light timer perhaps Pete? I've known them to give trouble similar in the past but on other makes. Possible too, need to look at everything but the bigger problem is still the central locking 🙃 not locking forward to that !! Wonder if that might tie in with the interior light / timer ?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Founding Member PaulS Posted October 24, 2022 Founding Member Report Share Posted October 24, 2022 Might be worth simply pulling off the live feed wire to the interior light and measuring again. I too have had that be an unexpected drain. You might then have the culprit and no need to look at the central locking.... fingers crossed.... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators hughezee Posted October 24, 2022 Administrators Report Share Posted October 24, 2022 Just a shot in the dark is your A.C compressor clicking on and off as normal, sometimes the A.C relay could be at fault? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PTR200S Posted October 25, 2022 Author Moderators Report Share Posted October 25, 2022 17 hours ago, PaulS said: Might be worth simply pulling off the live feed wire to the interior light and measuring again. I too have had that be an unexpected drain. You might then have the culprit and no need to look at the central locking.... fingers crossed.... Quite right, as it happens the fuse to the interior lights does the job of knocking off all the interior light power, doesn't seem to be anything else connected. When I got back from work today the van had sat for 24 hrs with both of the fuses removed....the battery was bang on the right voltage and only 20 milliamps drain happening. I then stuck the central locking fuse back in as I discovered it also activates the ignition when the smart card is used !! Using a key doesn't matter if its in or out. With the smart card active again there is a drain on the system, it is in ready mode to open the slide doors, 40amp fuses to each plus relays. Leaving out the interior light fuse and walking away with the smart card activates the locks, alarm etc...Two minutes later the drain stops an we are back to 20 milliamps... Basically, if the van is opened by the smart card it sits ready to do everything, on standby if you like, and it drains 500 millamps ish. Lock it and everything shuts down two minutes later. I often leave the van unlocked if I am working somewhere or maybe at home.....its drains the battery like a good un !! 🙃🙃🙃 Answer, lock it!!!! Interior light.....no idea yet, working on it !!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PTR200S Posted October 25, 2022 Author Moderators Report Share Posted October 25, 2022 15 hours ago, hughezee said: Just a shot in the dark is your A.C compressor clicking on and off as normal, sometimes the A.C relay could be at fault? Good thought but it is running great, and it was pressured up a couple of months ago on a health check, all good. See above re central locking / system shutdown.... 🤣🤣🤣 chasing my tail with that.....!!!! Interior light next, perhaps Dave is onto something with the timer as the lights, even in off mode seem to be draining system....unless of course its related to me leaving the van unlocked and the system in standby mode.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PTR200S Posted October 26, 2022 Author Moderators Report Share Posted October 26, 2022 Well, the overnight situation, with the interior lights fused up, gave a voltage drop from 12.63 volts down to 12.47 from a fully charged battery. The van was locked using the smart card again. That's a lot in about 14hrs and all down to the interior light fuse with NO LIGHTS ON !!! So, looks to be an interior lights problem, of which there are THIRTEEN of the little buggers !! Next step is all interior lights bulbs out and a before and after voltage check / milliamps load. Maybe there is a fault in an led bulb...other thing is the interior light delay, as Dave has said,....just need to find where they stuffed it !!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Laird_Scooby Posted October 26, 2022 Moderators Report Share Posted October 26, 2022 Just a hunch Pete, try finding the switch lead on the boot/tailgate latch and disconnecting it. Something that is common on the 800 and by extension, the Legend of similar time is the switch gets dirty from oil, dust etc and causes a variable but comaratively heavy current draw - not enough to illuminate the bulb but enough to cause a significant drain on the battery. You could cheat and simply remove the bulbs that come on when the tailgate is opened but that's where the fault will lie if that drops the current draw with those bulbs removed. I would hazard a guess a similar latch and switch mech was used on your Elysion to what was used on the 800/Legend and i daresay, many other Honda/Rover models of a certain era. I'd previously discounted this idea because it's the boot/tailgate switch but on yours of course, the luggage area is part of the interior so i would expect it to be lit with all the other interior lights on the delay. As for the LED bulbs, it's highly unlikely. As i think you know, a normal diode needs 0.7V to turn it on, i.e. make it conduct. With LEDs, they still need a voltage to get them to conduct but is higher, 2.0-2.4V for red/green/yellow LEDs, 3.0-3.6V for blue, white and some other colours like pink, purple etc. Below that voltage, they won't conduct and will be extremely high resistance so if they work when they're on, there's a very high chance they haven't gone "leaky". However, if there is a fault in the boot light switch, it will pass enough current to cause a drain through the "boot" lights without bringing them on, assuming the LED bulbs are "multielement", in other wwords several LEDs in one to create the light output. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PTR200S Posted October 27, 2022 Author Moderators Report Share Posted October 27, 2022 Boot switch is a good shout, again its been turned "off" forever but as last nights test session amounted to all interior light bulbs out but not the hatch or console bulbs that is next on the list. Last night at 5pm I inserted the interior light fuse back in...voltage on the battery was 12.70, perfect after a run out , this morning at 8.45am it was down to 12.44....0.26 volts down overnight, nearly 16 hours. I am off to dismantle boot light now!!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PTR200S Posted October 28, 2022 Author Moderators Report Share Posted October 28, 2022 Current 🙄🙄 situation now is I have eliminated all led bulbs, as expected all OK, the boot hatch mechanism and the light unit are OK too... What I did discover today was that the switch on the dash that prevents the central locking operating for one cycle of smart card proximity is also connected to the interior lighting system , i.e. if the interior lights fuse is pulled then this switch is also disabled. As that switch interacts with the central locking and also with the smart card system that is NOT on that interior lights fuse circuit there must be some sort of relay activated off the interior lights circuit but controlling a separate circuit with the central locking on it....question now is where is that connection / relay...and better still, how to check it. In the meantime all I can do is leave the fuse out of the interior lights, no biggy, I guess. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PTR200S Posted April 7, 2023 Author Moderators Report Share Posted April 7, 2023 On 10/20/2022 at 3:31 PM, PTR200S said: Pulled all the underbonnet fuses one by one...nothing, and to make matters worse the last fuse was a 40amp cube fuse with pinged out as I pulled....disappeared down the side of the engine bay , ffs......its the nearside electric sliding door one ... can't find it...Ordered another one 🙄🙄🙄🙄🤑🤑🤑 Found it !!!! Lodged in the front valance above the under engine front cover !!! Been there since October last, driven all over the county and still there !!!! Still have got any further with the drain, just left the interior fuse out 🙃🫣🫣🫣 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterb Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 On 10/20/2022 at 3:31 PM, PTR200S said: Funnily enough I bought an isolator for something else and you reminded me with that comment..I didn't use it so just tried it now,,wrong post size 😢 Still, on with the testing this afternoon, in the rain, why does it have rain when you are playing in the fuse box ??!!!! My dc clamp meter just wasn't having any of it so I dug out the old digital 20 year old meter and hooked it in series with the negative post and lead. Bloody hell !!! 0.68 amps !! or 680 milliamp....way, way over 30 to 50 ish I would expect. Pulled all the underbonnet fuses one by one...nothing, and to make matters worse the last fuse was a 40amp cube fuse with pinged out as I pulled....disappeared down the side of the engine bay , ffs......its the nearside electric sliding door one ... can't find it...Ordered another one 🙄🙄🙄🙄🤑🤑🤑 Started on internal fusebox, no1 fuse is the radio...no joy....pulled fuse 2, amps dropped to 0.11.......haven't gone any further yet because the fuse is marked "backup" it's a 10amp. The owners jap manual confirms "backup" but doesn't specify its use. No idea what its for but it is next to the radio/amp fuse so maybe the memory backup ??? All I can do now is try it and see what isn't working.... Exactly what is happening with mine!! Any clues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PTR200S Posted February 26 Author Moderators Report Share Posted February 26 2 hours ago, Peterb said: Exactly what is happening with mine!! Any clues? I haven't bothered any further with mine, just left the interior light fuse out....also controls the "keep unlocked" facility... It stopped the battery drain...I suspect the interior light delay unit but have got around to locating that yet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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