Fuel and EV only charge stations

[PTR200S]

It's on its way, increasing the access of charging stations at the expense of petrol pumps.

Shell are opening an EV only station in Fulham !!!!!!

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/features/how-shell-reinventing-fuel-station-evs

 

[Laird_Scooby]

The worlds gone nuts! 🤪👹

[PTR200S]

10 years to go and they are changing their business model,  Go electric and following the Issa brothers with their strategy of bigger and better shops on sites, no doubt, watch for mini Asda on Eurogarages sites.🙄

 

 

 

[Laird_Scooby]

Sadly i know you're right. Look at BP, many of the owned garages have "mini-S&M" shops built in, the franchised ones usually have something like Londis, Waitrose or similar. When Budgens were popular round my neck of the woods a chain of BP stations near Ely were linked to Budgens but are now something else - i'll try to remember to look next time i'm over that way.

It's all well and good updating their garages to be EV only but there will still be a lot of petrol and diseasel (and LPG!) cars on the road in 10 years time so while it may no longer be possible to buy a new "liquid" powered car, there will still be a high proportion of them on the road. Many people can't afford to change them and a good percentage of those people won't want to change.

Where i take my pooch for walkies there's often a black newish (69 plate?) Toyota estate there. It's a hybrid but so far i've only "heard" it on electric - or not as the case is! It's really weird when it starts moving silently!

I know there has been talk of adding an "engine sound" to electric cars to help prevent people being run over because they haven't heard the silent killer approaching, i thought it was meant to be in place by now.

Reminds me in a strange way of an old blind guy near Cambridge i heard about some years back. He had a torch and to catch the bus which stopped in a lay-by, he would find his way to the lay-by and when he heard what he thought was a bus would standa at the entrance to the lay-by and with the torch on, wave it to attract the bus drivers attention.

He was run over and killed by a lorry one dark winters evening. It sounded like a bus but the driver never saw him until he was a 2D image of himself on the tarmac because.........................

............ the torch batteries were flat!

[PaulS]

So modifcations to garages for EVs but no provision of hydrogen tanks.... short sighted.  

I wonder how many remotely sited garages will ever get any fast EV chargers installed due to themselves being far away from a hefty electricty supply and the cost of installing such devices. 

Also how will they amuse their customers simply waiting for their cars to charge up..... how many cups of coffee from the Costa or similar coffee machine will be consumed.....especially whilst awaiting a charge from a low output socket....

[Laird_Scooby]

1 minute ago, PaulS said:

So modifcations to garages for EVs but no provision of hydrogen tanks.... short sighted.  

No LPG tanks either, not very committed to reducing emissions are they? All "virtue signalling" IMHO which is modern day speak for cowshed confetti.

[PTR200S]

With this push to EV more chargers are needed across the country but once again it seems the London centric ignore the rest of us. Good for you guys in London but for the rest of us, not so much.  Although I actually don't care as I am unlikely to need a charger!!

From a more serious point of view the installations needs to be spread more evenly to prevent  " range anxiety  " otherwise the EV push in the northern badlands outside Watford will never happen...

They are using the "per 100,000" population figures again though which skew the stats, the only thing people want to know is how far to the next charger not the population count !! Bit like the cv19 figures really. 

This article in the , ahem , Guardian,  (not a great reporter I know! ) tells you a bit more.

3https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/nov/23/regional-disparities-in-electric-car-charging-points-revealed

 

[Laird_Scooby]

It's funny how certain topics get repeated on other forums/fora, there's a discussion on electric vehicles and the possible benefits of hydrogen Vs EVs and one member has quoted the cost of a (free to him) an EV charging point that was installed for him at the govts expense. The actual cost for the survey, labour and materials was about £350 - the govt was invoiced (and paid) £1339 and some odd pence.

This is for an EV socket that won't be used by the present owner of the house and who has footed the bill for his redundant charging point? The taxpayer. Who gets the benefit? Nobody, at least so far.

A pointless exercise IMHO, the govt would have been better off relaxing the New Car Tax to give the car dealers room to offer a free charging point installation with the purchase of a new EV, it would have been cheaper and more targeted, therefore more efficient financially.

Once more it's the use of statistics to create effects that are nothing more than an illusion.

[PTR200S]

Another report sent to government last year expressing concern on the production of cobalt,  plus lithium,  neodymium etc, for batteries .

Twice the current WORLD cobalt production for just the UK EV  !!!!

https://www.autocar.co.uk/opinion/electric-cars/opinion-raw-material-cost-switch-evs

 

[Laird_Scooby]

https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/news/2019/june/we-need-more-metals-and-elements-reach-uks-greenhouse-goals.html

This one was several months ago, it seems like the protests to the govt are falling on deaf ears.

[Retro Rich]

6 hours ago, Laird_Scooby said:

 

This one was several months ago, it seems like the protests to the govt are falling on deaf ears.

The government(s) have perfected the art of diversionary tactics. Knowing full well that diesels were dangerous, foul smelling vehicles, that although put out less C02, gave copious amounts of NOx and particulate matter that they knew would be inhaled by all mammals.

They are doing exactly the same with this EV fiasco. Goodness only knows what natural balance worldwide EV production will upset.....

[Laird_Scooby]

The other thing that doesn't help this scenario Rich is that many of the scientists that advise the govts have compromised scientific integrity because the people that "sponsor" their research grants "hint" that what they're hoping to "find" is beneficial to them.

As such, instead of presenting ALL the facts concerning certain subjects, they conveniently omit the more detrimental facts leaving only those in favour of certain things, even if long term that isn't helpful for the population, the country/world etc. Diesel is a prime example, despite advice to the contrary in the early 80s from various oil companies among others.

[PTR200S]

OK, I know, this is the guardian reporting but even if only half of it is true this is what people are now coming across when trying to get a recharge away from home.

Nine hours Bournemouth to Kent..electric Porchette ....apart from the none working chargers Tesla don't allow other manufacturers to use their charge points, different system? Not compatible?

Then the only working chargers have a queue!!!!!!  

Wait until we are electric only !!!     Queues ?? You ain't seen nothing yet !!!!!

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2020/nov/28/electric-cars-porsche-charging-network

 

[Laird_Scooby]

"it took them more than nine hours to drive 130 miles home from Bournemouth"

"The couple, who love their new fully electric Porsche Taycan 4S, which has a range of about 250 miles"

“We left Bournemouth with 45 miles of range left"

Something wrong with the maths there! A range of 250 miles, they used half of it getting to Bournemouth so should have 120 miles left, surely enough to get within 10 miles of home and more chargers?

What it really suggests to me is that the real range of the Porsche Tincan is only 175 miles at best, especially with the sat-nag running plus demisters, heater, lights etc so realistically, more like 150 miles.

 

Paid-for charging sites typically cost 30p per kWh, which is about twice as much you would pay if doing it at home. You will pay about £10 for 33kWh of electricity at a rapid charger – in most cases enough to drive about 130 miles.

I'm calling BS on this one, on the other thread i think it was i worked out with the assistance of research the likely figure was 3 miles per kW so a 33kW charge will only be 99 miles. In the Porsche above, it's probably less than that and certain websites (including Porsche in the USA say it's only 203 miles for the Tincan4S) confirm my suspicons that it's less than people think.

Charging

Charging time for alternating current (AC) with 9.6kW (0 to up to 100%)9.5 hrs

Copy & Pasted from https://www.porsche.com/usa/models/taycan/taycan-models/taycan-4s/

However i've just found this https://www.porsche.com/international/models/taycan/taycan-models/taycan-4s/

Checking the specs on that, it suggests about 27kWh of power for 100km so 27kWh for 62 miles. That's 2.29miles/Kwh and it turns out the real battery capacity (for the standard one) is in fact ~70kWh which gives a range of 160 miles to flat. They probably had the "Performace battery" which is 80kWh net so range would be ~180 miles, clost ot my original estimate further up the page.

Take that 160 miles as the likely "real world" figure and 20p/unit to charge it at home for the full 80 Kwh (80 units) and £16 will give you 160 miles which in terms of cost isn't bad but just wait until you get your leccy bill in!

[PTR200S]

Ubitricity have become the largest UK network of charging points doing loads of on street lamppost stuff.

All well and good until you interrogate Zap Map listing uk chargers. 

Largest network? Well, maybe but the distribution across the UK is nothing like Shell, Esso,  BP and the like.....

If you live in the London centric area , great, loads there ( no surprise really )

Portsmouth,  good,  few in Hampshire too...

The North, erm, few in Liverpool, one in North Wales,  None in the rest of the North,  or southwest come to that, none in Midlands or Scotland......

How is the biggest network encouraging electric vehicles nationwide? Can't leave London in an EV !

 

[Laird_Scooby]

I've been watching this guy on YT recently, he makes a lot of good points IMHO but this one takes the cake and is relevant to the posts above about the Porsche Tincan :

 

 

Just for those of a nervous disposition, he does use a bit of "colourful" language but in faitness, only at the points where it makes sense to do it. In other words, keep your kids, little old ladies and anyone else of a fragile nature away from this video, just in case they go all snowflake and complain!

[PTR200S]

Nissan Urinator,  for pissing about in !!!!   !ove it !!

Yep, he's just regurgitated the article but its good to see it getting passed about showing how difficult it will be to replace combustion engined cars in the timescale envisaged. 

To be fair, only new cars, and bikes too, are affected from 2030 but as he says what about the 40 million cars in circulation now ?

Where are all these cars going to be scrapped, physically, between 2030 and 2040 ? Assuming most people presume cars are past it at 10 years old 🙄

Also, the less working chargers points available increases the pressure and waiting times on the ones that are working. 

The lack of standard plugs on vehicles too, Tesla owners against other charging units for instance. 

I would also like to see some honest stats on cold weather working too, would you like to be in Scotland for instance,  mid winter with an estimated 100 mile range, 90 miles to the next charger only to run out of "fuel" at the 85 mile point...some 15% down because you needed the heaters and lights on ??

By the way, have you seen the state / design of the electric motorcycles!!!!      FFS    🤬

[Laird_Scooby]

55 minutes ago, PTR200S said:

Where are all these cars going to be scrapped, physically, between 2030 and 2040 ?

We'll abandon them in the gardens of all the eco-warriors that keep bleating about going green! They caused the problem, let them find a solution!

57 minutes ago, PTR200S said:

I would also like to see some honest stats on cold weather working too, would you like to be in Scotland for instance,  mid winter with an estimated 100 mile range, 90 miles to the next charger only to run out of "fuel" at the 85 mile point...some 15% down because you needed the heaters and lights on ??

This is why i kept babbling on about real world figures for range above, i suspect if someone is going to buy an EV now, take the range they are told, halve it and take off 20% - when they get to that many miles, start hunting for a charger!

59 minutes ago, PTR200S said:

By the way, have you seen the state / design of the electric motorcycles!!!!      FFS    🤬

No? Have you got any links?

[PTR200S]

8 hours ago, Laird_Scooby said:

No? Have you got any links?

Started another thread on motorcycles as this one is headed , erm, off road !!

[PTR200S]

The lowdown on charging plug systems if you are interested 😜

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/electric-cars/what-are-different-types-electric-car-plugs

The " ChadeMo" charger system allows two way current flow......your car could be powering the national grid without you knowing !!! 

 

[PTR200S]

Gridserve   , ( and Hitachi  UK ) are / have opened a fully electric service station in Braintree,  Essex today. Solar power apparently. 

24p per kw ...... includes a WH Smith , Boots, Costa Coffee and a post office!!

36 cars at a time, 20 minutes charge time to deliver 200 mile range !!!! for the average car 🤔

Don't think so !!

"Average" car with 60kwh battery , fast charge to 80% from say 20% , so 36kwh ish , got to charge at 3x 36 (20 minutes ) to get hourly rate...108kw charge rate for 20 minutes. 

Range ? Well 36kwh gets you about 100 miles.......Average car quoted,  remember...

 

[PTR200S]

Well there's a surprise  !!!

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/electric-cars/public-chargers-ev-hits-lowest-level-records-began

 

 

 

[Laird_Scooby]

Talk about setting themselves up for failure!

[PTR200S]

Shell is buying Ubitricity,  the largest EV leccy supply in UK........

What an opportunity, to shut down EV electric via a major petroleum company  😁😁😁😁😁

[PTR200S]

Instavolt have two chargers on a local fuel station...whilst I was there filling up I noticed the price they now charge per kw had gone up...

It's now 57p per kw   !!!!

So at 3 miles per kwh it's costing £9.12 to compete with a 48 mpg petrol car....for which fuel now costs, say, 163 litre, £7.41 a gallon, for those 48 miles.

If the EV manages 4 miles per kwh , and some do, (conditions dependent) it's equivalent £6.84 for 48 miles.

Charging at home is a better option however but a lot of people do not have that luxury.