Moderators PTR200S Posted November 15, 2022 Moderators Report Share Posted November 15, 2022 Had to abandon work today, left a premises, pushed brake pedal, felt soft... Did a few hundred more yards, used brake again, right to floor, brake warning light on dash. Travelled 5 miles on handbrake and manual down changes to limp it home... Good job I wasn't far away and in the middle of rush hour 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Brake fluid down to minimum level...checked it at the weekend and it was full... So it's a catastrophic failure somewhere, brake pipe joint (less likely) or a piston failed but unsual to fail very quickly...money is on brake fluid loss on a pipe somewhere... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Founding Member Cryistic Posted November 15, 2022 Founding Member Report Share Posted November 15, 2022 Bad luck, they always seem to go on a day with horrendous weather so investigation is a pain, which one of your cars was it? Surely if it was pipe related you would still have some feel left in the pedal as most cars are a split system? So could it be an issue with the master cylinder? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PTR200S Posted November 15, 2022 Author Moderators Report Share Posted November 15, 2022 Yeah, it's pi$$!ng down !!!! Coupe..... Been for a quick tour round when it eased off, can't see any visual leaks down below and as you say , master could be the problem. Topped it up to full level anyway, soft pedal and when pumped gave me some brakes back but soft to floor when held. Given that I can't see any loss yet underneath, difficult in the rain 😜😜, it could be the master but no evidence of loss down the servo yet...of course it could be still filling up !!! Just about to turn over 93k too 😜 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Founding Member PaulS Posted November 15, 2022 Founding Member Report Share Posted November 15, 2022 Very similar to what happened to my C240 a few months back. That was a hole in an unseeable bit of the supposedly metal pipe. Pumping a lot whilst static showed where the puddle appeared on the ground so that gave me the clue of where to look. I guess the rear axle area towards the middle of the car in your case.... You regularly look at the calipers and would have seen a rotten looking bit of pipe there. Rather annoying though, wrong time of year, cold, dark & wet do replace an awkward to get at piece of pipe.... you have my sympathy. Kunifer is the right pipe material in my experience, although others use copper or stainless - sometimes even braided... just avoid mild steel (I am sure you know that anyhow) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PTR200S Posted November 15, 2022 Author Moderators Report Share Posted November 15, 2022 Had all wheels off, investigating every inch of visible pipe, checked a suspect rear caliper to no avail but did the sliders whilst I was there 🙄🙄🙄 Decided to pull the carpet under the brake pedal in case it was running out of the back of the servo,,,,nope. Although it was nit likely I stripped the master cylinder out of the servo...no leaks there.... Probably getting on for 1/4 to half litre fluid gone somewhere...but where ???? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PTR200S Posted November 15, 2022 Author Moderators Report Share Posted November 15, 2022 16 minutes ago, PaulS said: Very similar to what happened to my C240 a few months back. That was a hole in an unseeable bit of the supposedly metal pipe. Pumping a lot whilst static showed where teh puddle appearewd on teh ground so that gave me the clue of where to look. I guess the rear axle area towards the middle of the car in your case.... You regularly look at the calipers and would have seen a rotten looking bit of pipe there. Rather annoying though, wrong time of year, cold, dark & wet do replace an awkward to get at piece of pipe.... you have my sympathy. Kuniper is the right pipe material in my experience, although others use copper or stainless - somethimes even braided... just avoid mild steel (I am sure you know that anyhow) I was hoping to avoid the pipe underneath scenario but you are right, that's the next job... With it dumping a full to minimum on the reservoir in an hour without even pressing the pedal I thought it was an easy find......🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃 no , not happening 🤬🤬🤬🤬 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Laird_Scooby Posted November 16, 2022 Moderators Report Share Posted November 16, 2022 So far, those are classic master cylinder symptoms Pete - except for the fluid loss. Hope you find the source and it's an easy fix! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PTR200S Posted November 16, 2022 Author Moderators Report Share Posted November 16, 2022 Finally got some inside space to jack car up and put onto hydraulic ramps so I can lift the back up. It's wet with brake fluid on the offside rear fuel tank.... The feed pipe for the offside rear wheel caliper has burst... 2 inches of rust !! Rest of the pipe is totally rust free... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PTR200S Posted November 16, 2022 Author Moderators Report Share Posted November 16, 2022 Hmm, need to remove the plastic brake line cover as the pipe runs from the rear to the front distributor block I think. There are 10mm bolts in the brackets at the ends but look like plastics bolts along the length...anyone know if it will come off with busting it !!! Also , are the brake line fittings standard 3/16th pipe but metric (fine ?) thread ? Not enough pipe in stock so need another roll, Kunifer cupronickel or copper coated ? All nuts connections etc have been given a thorough soaking in release fluid...see what tomorrow brings 😭 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Laird_Scooby Posted November 16, 2022 Moderators Report Share Posted November 16, 2022 Glad you've found it Pete, good luck with the repair! Are you going to replace the entire length or just fit a repair section? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Founding Member PaulS Posted November 16, 2022 Founding Member Report Share Posted November 16, 2022 At least your rotten pipe is easyish to get at, mine was hidden behind the subframe.... Should you so wish you could easily piece in a new short length of pipe... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PTR200S Posted November 16, 2022 Author Moderators Report Share Posted November 16, 2022 1 hour ago, Laird_Scooby said: Glad you've found it Pete, good luck with the repair! Are you going to replace the entire length or just fit a repair section? Funny you should say that, been thinking on fitting a repair section as it means I don't need to remove the plastic covers over the full length of the pipe...the only thing I need to check is that it doesn't pop up as an advisory on the mot....heard something about that a few years back. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PTR200S Posted November 16, 2022 Author Moderators Report Share Posted November 16, 2022 41 minutes ago, PaulS said: At least your rotten pipe is easyish to get at, mine was hidden behind the subframe.... Should you so wish you could easily piece in a new short length of pipe... Not that easy unfortunately as it winds over the tank before dropping to floor level but it does look like it might thread through, the bends may be another matter.. Short pipe , as Dave also said, might well be the answer. 🥳🥳🥳🥳 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PTR200S Posted November 17, 2022 Author Moderators Report Share Posted November 17, 2022 Checked a couple of mot places this morning who advised a "threesome" joint ( two females and a male apparently 🤣🤣 ) would pass no problem. They are not keen on compression type joints but flared OK. So next job is to get the solid pipe free at the flexible pipe connection on the rear offside caliper...loverly job 😛 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PTR200S Posted November 17, 2022 Author Moderators Report Share Posted November 17, 2022 Well , that went better than expected, union undid after a good wire brushing, brake cleaner then release lube 😛. All pipe clips under the rear frame came off without breaking any at all !!!!!....... Now waiting for pipe and unions .....tool at the ready ...flaring that is..🤣 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PTR200S Posted November 17, 2022 Author Moderators Report Share Posted November 17, 2022 Tried to pull the pipe out from behind the wheel arch....stuck, until I realised this bracket was there up between the boot floor and the chassis rail . No room to manoeuvre so one flat at a time to unscrew, just like the one bolt on the master cylinder!! And the broken bit, came off as I pulled it so it hadn't cracked completely off... Note the bracket that was screwed to the chassis in the first pic. It's filthy under the car, not a good time to be doing this with all the detritus coming off the roads. Pleased with the minimal rust though,... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Founding Member PaulS Posted November 17, 2022 Founding Member Report Share Posted November 17, 2022 Well lucky I think.... no dropping of the rear sub frame needed.... Now a "relatively simple" fix. A suggestion: Whilst the car is in the air I think it would be a good time to check the other side rear brake pipe too. Any rot can be similarly cut out & replaced and then you only have one lot of bleeding to do... But in your last picture do I see a rotten bit of floor to the top right of the jacking point? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PTR200S Posted November 18, 2022 Author Moderators Report Share Posted November 18, 2022 16 hours ago, PaulS said: Well lucky I think.... no dropping of the rear sub frame needed.... Now a "relatively simple" fix. A suggestion: Whilst the car is in the air I think it would be a good time to check the other side rear brake pipe too. Any rot can be similarly cut out & replaced and then you only have one lot of bleeding to do... But in your last picture do I see a rotten bit of floor to the top right of the jacking point? I have already checked the other side pipework, thinking along your lines, the good news is it is perfect so I have sprayed it with clear underseal so I can keep watch on it. Good point on bleeding , I don't need, or want, to do it twice !!! You gave me a bit of a scare when you mentioned the "rotten bit" , !! I thought I had missed something !!!! The bit of , pokey out, stuff that you can see is actually a bit of mud on top of underseal, it looks much worse in the picture because of the light creating a deep shadow. I have scraped the mud off but left the underseal....you did prompt me to start looking at other areas though, thanks for the heads up. 😃 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PTR200S Posted November 21, 2022 Author Moderators Report Share Posted November 21, 2022 New pipe installed , mot standard connection 🤣🤣🤣 This is the joint at the back if the rear floor and the pipe runs up to the rear offside caliper flexible in the rear arch. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Founding Member PaulS Posted November 22, 2022 Founding Member Report Share Posted November 22, 2022 Well done. Bet you are pleased its fixed again, especially at minimal cost.... Awkward job in the cold weather, but essential so had to be done... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PTR200S Posted November 23, 2022 Author Moderators Report Share Posted November 23, 2022 11 hours ago, PaulS said: Well done. Bet you are pleased its fixed again, especially at minimal cost.... Awkward job in the cold weather, but essential so had to be done... Thanks, definitely pleased to be back on the road, will be out most of the day "testing" 🤣🤣 93k now achieved, not a lot compared with some but more than a few other cars on here 🤪🤪 Actually, I now have a lot to do to catch up on jobs, been nearly a week off the road.🙄 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators hughezee Posted November 23, 2022 Administrators Report Share Posted November 23, 2022 On 11/21/2022 at 4:39 PM, PTR200S said: New pipe installed , mot standard connection 🤣🤣🤣 Great work Pete, glad you got it sorted. 👍 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Laird_Scooby Posted November 23, 2022 Moderators Report Share Posted November 23, 2022 Good to hear it's all sorted Pete, i was "reluctant" to post my congrats too soon until you'd tested it thoroughly as i know only too well it's not always possible to get the complete fault cured (despite expectations!) when you think it is. Seems as if it's all good and it's not having a reactionary wee of brake fluid just to annoy. Time to enjoy it again now! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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