Honda Odyssey RA6 2000-2003 DTC Code P1491

[hughezee]

Well finally think I have a resolution to my niggle on the Odyssey, engine management light came on a couple of weeks ago and instantly suspected the EGR passages blocked like I've seen many times on Accords run on cheap fuel. Then it got me thinking I don't use cheap fuel and the intake and EGR passages are different to the Accord including the EGR itself. So going through motions to find zero carbon deposits, checking signal from the ECU all ok but after testing the EGR itself via multimeter I can confirm it's not working as it should.

New one ordered from the USA (£135 delivered) and apparently, a revised version as the low emission set up requires more work from the EGR, makes sense though. The other odyssey I recently sold had the same code but that was full of crap cleaned and reset jobs a good one. However' I didn't get lucky this time though and they are not cheap either, Honda UK wants £289.11 might be because its also used on the Honda Insight.  

[Laird_Scooby]

Did you consider trying that Seafoam stuff that is all over youtube Stu?

[hughezee]

2 minutes ago, Laird_Scooby said:

Did you consider trying that Seafoam stuff that is all over youtube Stu?

Never considered it really mate, got the inspection camera and had a good look, everything is looking healthy on the inside of the engine and intake.

[Laird_Scooby]

I know that's what it's mainly designed for (intake and engine inside) but it could well work on the EGR valves, especially considering it's a USA development and almost certainly made to help people get their cars through the SMOG tests which include the EGR valves over there i believe.

Might have saved a bit of time and spanner-wielding.

[hughezee]

56 minutes ago, Laird_Scooby said:

Might have saved a bit of time and spanner-wielding.

I have already removed the EGR for inspection and the plunger movent is a not smooth like it should be.

[Laird_Scooby]

Ooo-errrr missus! Can't be having some rough plunger action!

Perhaps the result of a previous owner using cheap fuel?

[hughezee]

31 minutes ago, Laird_Scooby said:

Ooo-errrr missus! Can't be having some rough plunger action!

Perhaps the result of a previous owner using cheap fuel?

Sounds about right as the emissions where sky high when I got it, prior to the EGR failure barely reading anything at the last MOT 

[Laird_Scooby]

Why do people do it? Use cheap fuel that is.

My ex-next door neighbour had a Volvo XC70 D5 and he tried BP Ultimate Diesel and consistently got 40+mpg out of it. It was something like 5p/L dearer than Tescos diseasel at the time so about 3% more expensive.

Thing was, he was lucky to get 30mpg out of the Tesco muck and when he got short on money towards the end of the month, would fill up with Tesco then maon he wasn't getting very good economy. I tried explaining the maths to him that 33% extra economy beats (by 11:1) a 3% saving in cost. Despite the fact he had a fairly high powered, intelligence-necessary job, he still couldn't see the logic. "But it's 5p/L cheaper at tesco!"

[welland99]

1 hour ago, Laird_Scooby said:

Why do people do it? Use cheap fuel that is.

My ex-next door neighbour had a Volvo XC70 D5 and he tried BP Ultimate Diesel and consistently got 40+mpg out of it. It was something like 5p/L dearer than Tescos diseasel at the time so about 3% more expensive.

Thing was, he was lucky to get 30mpg out of the Tesco muck and when he got short on money towards the end of the month, would fill up with Tesco then maon he wasn't getting very good economy. I tried explaining the maths to him that 33% extra economy beats (by 11:1) a 3% saving in cost. Despite the fact he had a fairly high powered, intelligence-necessary job, he still couldn't see the logic. "But it's 5p/L cheaper at tesco!"

On those figures, IT is a no brainer. However, i went through a phase of buying super for my coupe for about 6 months.  I can honestly say that I did not notice Any improvement in running (it was fine on regular), so I was looking for benefits in fuel economy.  Whilst there was a detectable improvement in mpg, it wasnt very dramatic, and not worth the extra expense.  

This gets me thinking about official fuel consumption figures.  We all know that they have been highly discredited over the years, but I understand that new 'real world' official measures are being developed. Anyway, considering the potential for mpg to be affected by fuel, I wonder what the mpg test specifies for fuel?

[Laird_Scooby]

I've often wondered about the official figures as well. When i was a sprog, it was mpg at 56mph, 75mph and "Simulated Urban Cycle". Generally speaking, the sort of driving i did then, i could take those three figures, add them up and divide by 3 (or take the average even! ) and within 1-2mpg, that was usually what i would get out of almost any car.

I learned various different ways of improving the economy (and usually power) of most cars i had, all while keeping within the manufacturers specs - for example, i consistently achieved 27-28mpg out of V8 SD1s including some seriously hard driving (35 miles in 23 minutes on a mix of roads and still got 28mpg!) so the Official Figures are probably just a guide anyway.

These new "real world tests" will probably be no different in as much as they will still only be a guide and at the bottom, in very small print will be written : "Driving style may influence actual figures recorded by owners and every car will perform slightly differently" or words to that effect.

In other words, if you constantly drive with your foot buried on the loud pedal, your car will drink fuel like Oliver Reed empties a pub. If you drive it like Miss Daisy, you probably won't fare much better as you'll never get into the optimum efficiency band of the engine. Drive sensibly and you should get reasonably good economy.

[Retro Rich]

Interesting topic this. Some people look at me like I’m a boring anorak whenever I discuss it, but I don’t understand why people are so sceptical about fuel friction modifiers. As you may all know now, I run a Honda Jazz as my daily driver, and it consistently gives 45-48 mpg running on Sainsbury’s 95 unleaded (Sainsbury’s use BP). In a dire emergency I had to use Asda special last week and the mpg plummeted down to the range of 32-36 mpg. In horror I have now put Shell V Power in, in a vain attempt to clean everything back up. Within 6 miles of driving mpg was restored to previous levels. I will switch back to Sainsbury’s 95 next time I fill up. 

[hughezee]

New EGR arrived and fitted + gasket fault code(s) cleared and did a hard reset from my scanner tool and bang its purring like a kitten.

[hughezee]

Update: Odyssey is going from strength to strength pulling stronger than ever and gearchanges are still fast and smooth.

[Laird_Scooby]

Just as an aside Stu, what fuel ar you running in the Odyssey? I'm guessing V-Power but have noticed something odd with it lately.

[hughezee]

1 hour ago, Laird_Scooby said:

Just as an aside Stu, what fuel ar you running in the Odyssey? I'm guessing V-Power but have noticed something odd with it lately.

Very rarely use V-Power on the older 4 pots as BP ultimate is my preferred choice but the V6 is not keen on BP and seems happiest on V-Power and still delivering a respectable MPG

[Laird_Scooby]

Just after i posted that last post i thought you'd probably be using BP in the 4-pots and V-Power in the V6 - have you noticed anything untoward on the cold starting on the V6 recently?

[Brett]

Just a thought Stu with the odyssey getting better and better.

Could the ECU be self-learning to the new ERG valve?

[hughezee]

52 minutes ago, Brett said:

Could the ECU be self-learning to the new ERG valve?

1

Yes mate it will still be learning for the next 50 miles or so and after testing the old EGR it was found to have ground leakage, so with it bolted near the fuel rail would have affected any related electronics (probably why fuel gauge is behaving now). Also, any electrical faults developing the IAC valve which can damage the EGR or Lamdas on the Accord Coupe.

[hughezee]

3 hours ago, Laird_Scooby said:

Just after i posted that last post i thought you'd probably be using BP in the 4-pots and V-Power in the V6 - have you noticed anything untoward on the cold starting on the V6 recently?

No problems what so ever mate, why do you ask

[Laird_Scooby]

I have a strange one on the Volvo, it seems to run best on V-Power but lately i've noticed little or no difference to BP Ultimate/Sainsburys Super Unleaded in the general running. What i have noticed is the cold start is nowehere near as good on Shell as it is on BP/Sainsburys. On that it's turn the key, first "pot over the top" and it's running, with Shell it's turn over a few times then fire.

If i "flick" the starter on the key (on Shell) so the starter barely touches the engine and leave it at position 2 for a few seconds, i can hear the pumps whizz up then turn the key and it's "first pot over the top". It could be argued that the ECU isn't sending the prime signal to the fuel pumps, however on BP it still starts first touch.

Any thoughts?

[hughezee]

Funny you should mention abnormalities, my niggle is with BP my local isn't as good as my old BP in Tamworth, used to travel 12 ish miles in my 2.3 Accord just to get BP ultimate and suspect something is not right with my local BP which was only re-branded from a Total 18 months ago. Every opportunity we get we use BP from Tamworth as it always performed the best. Also, the Shell fuel from Lichfield doesn't perform as well as the one I use from Burton and Retro Rich has also found this as well... Maybe it's the way it's stored or just dishonest suppliers, it's just too consistent being inconsistent between the stations to be anything else

[Laird_Scooby]

I'm pretty tied to my local stations here, Shell is about 7 miles away at Fiveways Roundabout, nearest BP is about 6 miles away in Brandon, Sainsburys is 12 miles away in Thetford as is the nearest LPG station. Not sure if there's a Shell in Thetford but there was a BP that had variable quality LPG (mpg on the Jeep varied from 11-18mpg on it, driving the same way! )

After that, BP  in Newmarket (16 miles) , BP and another station selling LPG in Downham Market (22 miles), then it's either Cambridge or Kings Lynn, both about 30 miles for any of the above!

The local Shell (Fiveways) has always seemed variable and it's also expensive with a capital "F" - 135.9p/L

Another good reason to go back to BP/Sainsburys i'm thinking!

[PTR200S]

4 hours ago, Laird_Scooby said:

I have a strange one on the Volvo, it seems to run best on V-Power but lately i've noticed little or no difference to BP Ultimate/Sainsburys Super Unleaded in the general running. What i have noticed is the cold start is nowehere near as good on Shell as it is on BP/Sainsburys. On that it's turn the key, first "pot over the top" and it's running, with Shell it's turn over a few times then fire.

If i "flick" the starter on the key (on Shell) so the starter barely touches the engine and leave it at position 2 for a few seconds, i can hear the pumps whizz up then turn the key and it's "first pot over the top". It could be argued that the ECU isn't sending the prime signal to the fuel pumps, however on BP it still starts first touch.

Any thoughts?

I use V power as much as possible on the Coupe but I have a BP at the end of my road so it gets that in it too (Shell station is 6 miles away) and it fires on the first turn every time ( ok not when I had the main relay problem !!)

The V8 motors I have need a touch more to fire but are bang on with either fuel...... of course there is a however !!

At the beginning of December the XK8 seemed a bit reluctant, on V power, and a chat with a few others revealed similar probs to the one you are talking about Dave, it turned out that the Shell station had water in its tanks .  They reckoned it was due to condensation due to the low level of fuel in the tanks...........

Maybe.....????