V6 Newbie Project

[kag8]

Yes its that belt. Noise and play are minor enough to leave for now but will monitor it periodically. Thanks!

[Laird_Scooby]

If you can manage to trickly a bit of oil or a squirt of WD40 onto the mechanical part of the tensioner you may find that's all it needs but either way keep your eye on it just to be on the safe side.

Also check the condition of your belt from time to time as well.

[kag8]

Having to replace 2 tyres prematurely is making me think to drop to 17s accord type r speedline types with the correct offset and more sidewall. Someone talk me out of it. I love my current rims and will only regret it. Lol

[Mangoman]

Dropping to 17's from 18's will exacerbate the issue. Smaller circumference equals more revolutions per kilometer.

Why do you think small wheels like on the older Mini and trailers only last a few thousand miles.... 

Also as they spin faster they build up more heat increasing wear even more.

DON'T DO IT!

[PTR200S]

16 hours ago, Mangoman said:

revolutions per kilometre

a few thousand miles.... 

 

DON'T DO IT!

Roll on brexit, !!!!  K and miles 

And yes, don't do it but because its a shame to lose the wheels !!!!

[PTR200S]

22 hours ago, kag8 said:

Having to replace 2 tyres prematurely is making me think to drop to 17s accord type r speedline types with the correct offset and more sidewall. Someone talk me out of it. I love my current rims and will only regret it. Lol

Yep, keep them, they look great, and sort the suspension setup 

[Mangoman]

3 hours ago, PTR200S said:

Roll on brexit, !!!!  K and miles 

Apologies, but I lived in Southern Africa for 30 odd years and they went Metric in 1970 (Rhodesia) - but they did it properly and went the whole hog. Pounds, (£) to Dollars, Inches to Centimeters etc; Miles to Kilometers and Pounds, (weight) to Kilograms/Grams all overnight on the 1st Jan 1970.

It was quite strange actually because in July 1970 I returned to England to do my High Schooling so had to revert back to Imperial until it changed again, (for me anyway) in January 1971...lol. I remember at school they were all amazed at how easy I found it.

Anyway, that is why I sometimes inadvertently say Kilometers.... Actually I can imagine, or rather calculate, in my mind's eye how far a Kilometer is easier than a Mile....  

[PTR200S]

41 minutes ago, Mangoman said:

Apologies, but I lived in Southern Africa for 30 odd years and they went Metric in 1970 (Rhodesia) - but they did it properly and went the whole hog. Pounds, (£) to Dollars, Inches to Centimeters etc; Miles to Kilometers and Pounds, (weight) to Kilograms/Grams all overnight on the 1st Jan 1970.

It was quite strange actually because in July 1970 I returned to England to do my High Schooling so had to revert back to Imperial until it changed again, (for me anyway) in January 1971...lol. I remember at school they were all amazed at how easy I found it.

Anyway, that is why I sometimes inadvertently say Kilometers.... Actually I can imagine, or rather calculate, in my mind's eye how far a Kilometer is easier than a Mile....  

Ha, Ha, Sorry, Bill it was only later this morning after I had posted and left the house I remembered where you had been ! Realised about the k's at that point ... am I bad?

 

 

[PTR200S]

Its just a thing with me, well my beef with the BBC, and I guess the media in general, in their use of Kilometres  in "everyday situation speak"   such as " xyz village, 4 kilometres from ABC town is the subject of scrutiny this morning. argggg.

We don't use fekin Kilometers on our direction signs, the vehicles speedometers are in MPH, they still measure doorframe cases in imperial or timber in 3"x 2", yes we have a mix of metric and imperial but MILES is what we use in the UK... sorry Bill, not getting at you but the media really get my goat....

and while I am on one, stop using "sense" in a sentence when actually you (media) mean "feeling" .....  i.e. "Is there a sense that everyone knows what's going on?" arrggggghh..

 

Can you tell I am hacked off today ??  sorry Stu better move this bit somewhere else, yeah, the bin, I know....

[kag8]

Thanks guys. Ive just spent a good hour cleaning my car and 40mins of that was on the wheels alone! 10 mins each. Getting into the tiny gaps and cleaning them. Such a pain. Usually i get very satisfied when i get them shiny but now with the weather as it is they will only get filthy again in a few days!

I guess whats making me more inclined to changing them is a mixture of the above cleanliness factor and that I had got the bargain of a lifetime. So even after kerbing them like crazy (havent curbed them in about 3 months now, more used to the turning circle and dont take unnecessary risks parking) and wearing down 2 of the tyres ill likely get my money back if i sold as is...then i can put that money into 17s with the correct offset, allowing me to drop the rear without rolling the fenders. But if i sell ill never get these type of wheels at the price i did ever again :s

Maybe Ill just keep an eye out for a set of 17s with winter tyres on and keep these aside for when the weather is better.

As for the kms miles debate. I too understand distance better when presented in kms rather than miles. Just conditioned that way having grown up in Kenya. I guess that makes me underestimate the age of my car since the odometer is in miles so seems lower in my mind that reads it as kms so thats a plus haha

[Laird_Scooby]

I think you've just started a new thread here Pete! Perhaps Stu will move it to a new thread entitled "My Pet Peeve" or similar!

I too dislike the use of kilometres in everyday speaking, as you rightly point out London is 60 miles away from somewhere 60 miles from London, not 100kms! Dusseldorf might be 100kms away from Berlin (might be nearer or further, my German geography is non-existent ) and that is fine, they measure in kms on the continent.

BUT WE DON'T HERE!!!

My real pet peeve is the excessive use of "absolutely" when they really mean yes or something totally different. My favourite example comes from my local news when the anchorman asked the reporter "What's happening down there Emma?" to which Emma replied "Absolutely Jonathan!"

How does that tell me, the humble viewer, anything about the situation at wherever it was? Fairly sure it was a terrorist attack about 10 years ago but could be wrong, i remember the words though!

[Laird_Scooby]

2 minutes ago, kag8 said:

likely get my money back if i sold as is...then i can put that money into 17s with the correct offset, allowing me to drop the rear without rolling the fenders. But if i sell ill never get these type of wheels at the price i did ever again :s

Maybe Ill just keep an eye out for a set of 17s with winter tyres on and keep these aside for when the weather is better

Maybe not - that could be the reason they were sold in the first place because the offset is wrong. What Stu suggested on the tracking is fine as a compromise and will help mitigate the offset being wrong but to get things really right so you're not scrubbing out tyres in short order you really need wheels with the correct offset.

My advice if you're going for winter tyres is to go for steel 16s or even 15s (165/75R15, 165/70R16) with skinny tyres and a high aspect ratio. Not easy to find some of those sizes though so you'd have to compromise. The thing with wide tyres is they simply compact the snow and ice then skid/spin on the resultant smooth surface. The thinner the tyres, the more they "cut" through the snow and ice which gives more direct contact with the road underneath.

It sounds counter-intuitive to fit narrower tyres when you want more grip but snow and ice turn conventional thinking on its head.

[Mangoman]

54 minutes ago, PTR200S said:

Ha, Ha, Sorry, am I bad?

No, not at all Pete...lol.

It's just sometimes I forget - if anything it's me that's bad....

And yes, the BBC should know better! but then again they are a bunch arseholes!

[Mangoman]

29 minutes ago, kag8 said:

Thanks guys. Ive just spent a good hour cleaning my car and 40mins of that was on the wheels alone! 10 mins each. Getting into the tiny gaps and cleaning them. Such a pain. Usually i get very satisfied when i get them shiny but now with the weather as it is they will only get filthy again in a few days!

Maybe Ill just keep an eye out for a set of 17s with winter tyres on and keep these aside for when the weather is better.

As for the kms miles debate. I too understand distance better when presented in kms rather than miles. Just conditioned that way having grown up in Kenya. I guess that makes me underestimate the age of my car since the odometer is in miles so seems lower in my mind that reads it as kms so thats a plus haha

I'm with you there regarding cleaning - I've got into the habit now of Cleaning the Wheels first separately - having a cuppa, then washing the car. Seems less of a schlep that way.  

Agree about having Winter Wheels/Tyres.

And yes, I remember the days when if a car had a 100000kms on the clock it seemed a lot - but really it was only about 62000 miles...lol.  

[kag8]

25 minutes ago, Laird_Scooby said:

Maybe not - that could be the reason they were sold in the first place because the offset is wrong. What Stu suggested on the tracking is fine as a compromise and will help mitigate the offset being wrong but to get things really right so you're not scrubbing out tyres in short order you really need wheels with the correct offset.

I may have mixed up terminologies, isnt offset ET? So these wheels have 5x114.3 studs, the bore size was 67mm I beleive so I got spigot rings to get them to fit 64.1mm hub. The ET is 35 whereas our coupes should have 40something is it? Hence they stick out.

The spec is a direct fit for some Hyundais (and likely many other cars with 5x114.3mm studs) but I think there are many ppl with slammed cars and want wide wheels that would bite if i price them reasonably.

Having said that, i dont think ill be selling them yet. Will get 2 new tyres and sort out the tracking.

About the tracking, sorry, im still slightly confused. Stu suggested I adjust the toe by 0.5. Current reading was minus 0.25, so the resulting toe should be positive 0.25 then??

[kag8]

7 minutes ago, Mangoman said:

And yes, I remember the days when if a car had a 100000kms on the clock it seemed a lot - but really it was only about 62000 miles...lol.  

Exactly! When I glance at the odo and see 120,000, my mind defaults to kms and I feel super happy haha.

[Laird_Scooby]

When i manage to clean my car (without using the local car-wash), i start by cleaning the wheels with some alloy wheel cleaner and a wheel brush - bit like a bottle brush crossed with a bog-brush but gets in the nooks and crannies. Then wash the car and the soapy water drips down on the wheels, softening any remaining dirt so the wheels get a bit of extra treatment at the end.

Then if i remember and it's still dry, i might give the wheels a coat of wax polish to make them easier to clean next time.

2 minutes ago, kag8 said:

I may have mixed up terminologies, isnt offset ET? So these wheels have 5x114.3 studs, the bore size was 67mm I beleive so I got spigot rings to get them to fit 64.1mm hub. The ET is 35 whereas our coupes should have 40something is it? Hence they stick out.

The spec is a direct fit for some Hyundais but I think there are many ppl with slammed cars and want wide wheels that would bite if i price them reasonably.

Having said that, i dont think ill be selling them yet. Will get 2 new tyres and sort out the tracking.

About the tracking, sorry, im still slightly confused. Stu suggested I adjust the toe by 0.5. Current reading was minus 0.25, so the resulting toe should be positive 0.25 then??

Legally they're not allowed to stick out and what Stu suggested was a maximum of 0.5 toe-in which in the numbers you have would be -0.5. As you drive forwards, the wheels will pull back slightly on the bushes so they will in fact be parallel or near enough. Also the extra width will pull them back slightly. The increased toe-in will also counter the decreased offset while maneouvering by helping to correct the Ackermann angle :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ackermann_steering_geometry

You're right, ET is the offset. I did have some diagrams that explained the relationship of offset, how tracking works etc but they were stored on Photobuck'ay and were lost when they went all diva on us. However if you have a read of this and click on their videos tab at the top of the page to see how things are done, it also explains how tracking works etc.

http://www.trackace.co.uk/index.html#top

This shows ET/offset etc :

You can see wider wheels and tyres will slightly alter the tracking, Ackermann angle and a few other things, when you deviate from what the manufacturer designed for the car, you need to compensate - Stus suggestion of increasing the toe-in to a maximum of 0.5 is one way of doing it. You've also altered the ride height which in turn will alter the camber and caster angles. They all work together and with each other, if you alter one it will then work against something if not all of the set-up.

[Mangoman]

And just to further on from Dave, generally Offset/ET is a 'Positive' number. ie. the lower the Number the more the wheels will stick out.

And the Offset/ET is basically what it says - it offsets the difference between the Pivot Point and the face of where the Wheel meets the Disc/Drum. I believe this measurement is in millimeters.

[kag8]

25 minutes ago, Laird_Scooby said:

Then if i remember and it's still dry, i might give the wheels a coat of wax polish to make them easier to clean next time.

Good tip. I usually had a spray can of wonder wheels which seemed to do a decent job (but never used anything else so cant really compare). That can ran out. So ive just gone and applied some wax to the wheels.

 

17 minutes ago, Mangoman said:

And just to further on from Dave, generally Offset/ET is a 'Positive' number. ie. the lower the Number the more the wheels will stick out.

Whats the coupe standard spec? My wheels are ET35 which is lower hence stick out. Just wanted to confirm by how much out they are.

 

27 minutes ago, Laird_Scooby said:

Stus suggestion of increasing the toe-in to a maximum of 0.5 is one way of doing it.

Still confused, just wondering if im currently on -0.25 and that didnt help the inner tread wear, if I get them further up to -0.5 isnt that increasing the problem? Shouldnt it be going closer to zero?

[Laird_Scooby]

1 minute ago, kag8 said:

Still confused, just wondering if im currently on -0.25 and that didnt help the inner tread wear, if I get them further up to -0.5 isnt that increasing the problem? Shouldnt it be going closer to zero?

No, it should help correct it. The front end of the tyres is closer together than the back by 0.25 at the moment, because you've altered the ride height and have wider wheels with a different offset, the wheels are being pulled back on their mountings slightly more. This has the effect of pulling them straighter but at the moment, they are being pulled past the straight point.

Remember my analogy of standing with your feet slightly apart with your toes pointing in? If you imagine that as you drive your heels are pulled backwards but that you have a bolt holding your feet to the floor through the top , the only way your toes can go is further apart. This means more wear on the inside edge.

Now imagine the same scenario but with your toes pointing in even closer. Your heels are pulled back by the same amount as before so the toes move further apart by the same amount. Because your toes (the front edge of the tyres) started closer together (-0.5 instead of -0.25 from parallel) when they move the same amount they end up parallel.

Does that make more sense?

[Mangoman]

19 minutes ago, kag8 said:

 

Whats the coupe standard spec? My wheels are ET35 which is lower hence stick out. Just wanted to confirm by how much out they are.

Should be 55  Although according to some it can be anything between 45 & 55.

[kag8]

Makes alot of sense now. Thank you. Ill try my best to get to the alignment this week.

[PTR200S]

4 hours ago, Laird_Scooby said:

I think you've just started a new thread here Pete! Perhaps Stu will move it to a new thread entitled "My Pet Peeve" or similar!

My real pet peeve is the excessive use of "absolutely" when they really mean yes or something totally different. My favourite example comes from my local news when the anchorman asked the reporter "What's happening down there Emma?" to which Emma replied "Absolutely Jonathan!"

 now you've gone and done it, Dave    Stu we need a new thread ! My apologies, Kag  for foul mouthing your thread ..

Worse than that, now , us the use of "so" at the start of every sentence. 

Usually uttered by desk plebs some of whom have not been out into the real world properly yet and seem to want to use all the other pleb utterances....such as, going forward, blue sky thinking, out of the box and a plethora of other marketing speak.

 

So,  what do you sense about this thread, going forward? Absolutely fabulous, Dave!

[PTR200S]

4 hours ago, kag8 said:

Thanks guys. Ive just spent a good hour cleaning my car and 40mins of that was on the wheels alone! 10 mins each. Getting into the tiny gaps and cleaning them. Such a pain. Usually i get very satisfied when i get them shiny but now with the weather as it is they will only get filthy again in a few days!

I guess whats making me more inclined to changing them is a mixture of the above cleanliness factor and that I had got the bargain of a lifetime. So even after kerbing them like crazy (havent curbed them in about 3 months now, more used to the turning circle and dont take unnecessary risks parking) and wearing down 2 of the tyres ill likely get my money back if i sold as is...then i can put that money into 17s with the correct offset, allowing me to drop the rear without rolling the fenders. But if i sell ill never get these type of wheels at the price i did ever again :s

Maybe Ill just keep an eye out for a set of 17s with winter tyres on and keep these aside for when the weather is better.

As for the kms miles debate. I too understand distance better when presented in kms rather than miles. Just conditioned that way having grown up in Kenya. I guess that makes me underestimate the age of my car since the odometer is in miles so seems lower in my mind that reads it as kms so thats a plus haha

My apologies once again , Kag for messing with the thread.

I have followed this with interest and I think its a good plan getting a set of Winter wheels tyres...what about a standard set again so that you can use it as a baseline for your changes re the problems you had with vibrations????

[PTR200S]

3 hours ago, Laird_Scooby said:

No, it should help correct it. The front end of the tyres is closer together than the back by 0.25 at the moment, because you've altered the ride height and have wider wheels with a different offset, the wheels are being pulled back on their mountings slightly more. This has the effect of pulling them straighter but at the moment, they are being pulled past the straight point.

Remember my analogy of standing with your feet slightly apart with your toes pointing in? If you imagine that as you drive your heels are pulled backwards but that you have a bolt holding your feet to the floor through the top , the only way your toes can go is further apart. This means more wear on the inside edge.

Now imagine the same scenario but with your toes pointing in even closer. Your heels are pulled back by the same amount as before so the toes move further apart by the same amount. Because your toes (the front edge of the tyres) started closer together (-0.5 instead of -0.25 from parallel) when they move the same amount they end up parallel.

Does that make more sense?

Brilliantly put Dave, great analogy