Cardi

Thank you Dave, closing and locking all doors etc did the trick - after a couple runs through the sequence it started working ok. I can now get back to the possible CPS flt. I've put flying leads on the CPS & TDC sensor so i can check them again with the engine running before check the cam/crank alignment. Russ

Made room to bring the Vitesse into the garage at last. Put newly charged battery on, switched on, all lamps lit ok, turned key, silence. Bridged starter relay, engine cranked and fired straight away. Tested relay it's ok. Checked continuity from battery to starter relay coil thro' ignition sw/ inhibitor sw to relay coil - ok. Checked from othe side of relay coil to to plug on ccu - ok. Checked earth on ccu - ok. Connected strap to earth and then to relay wire on ccu plug, starts ok. Unless i've missed something i assume the fault is with the ccu. I need some advice/help with a few things. Anybody know of a YWC10124 ccu for sale. What are the differences between the different ccu's and how likely is it a different but similar version will work. What does the ccu do to the starting circuit? Can i just leave an earth on the one side of the relay? It doesn't appear to cause any problems. Would appreciate any help/suggestions. Russ

ECU arrived today but fault still on when fitted, which is a bit disappointing , so i will have to check crank sensor and lambda sensor outputs at ecu plug. I'll try to attach pictures traces measured at socket near the bulkhead under bonnet, If i succeed the first trace will be high idle before symptoms occur, the second low idle fault on, the third light throttle fault on.

Yes I did check lamp flashes on ecu- still 4. I've been looking at ecu model codes and it looks like mine is from a 93-96 auto. There appears to be 7 versions fitted to the auto between 88 and 96 i suspect there maybe a difference between cat and non cat models so getting one from 93-96 model makes sense. Mine is 37820-PL2-G12 and there is a 37820-PL2-G13 listed on ebay from Germany at about 45 euros I might take a chance on that.

R12 fittings for sure and no pressure in system. Moved a/c pipe out of the way, unbolted slam panel and managed to get in and change front sensor. Reset diagnostic lamp, including disconnecting battery, went for a spin and fault lamp came on again. I have checked continuity from crank sensor to ecu but didn't do so for the lamda sensors, I'll do that just to be sure but i think it's looking like an ecu fault now.

R12 according to sticker warning about working on high pressure hoses.

Well i shall certainly have to change the front sensor now, went for a drive today and the fault reoccured. Re. the AC i'm sure Jon (urbanviking) told me that due to a change in the type of gas used, the AC it no longer worked and either a compressor with with compatable seals would be needed, or the old one rebuilt with the right seals fitted. The AC is low on my priorties at the moment, this year i hope to put some new metal into the OSR wheel arch. Totally agree about how well AC clears a screen. Russ

Fitted rear sensor yesterday at that has sorted the problem, however i will be changing the front as well as soon as i can. As the air conditioning is u/s the simplest method looks remove the AC pipes and go in from the top. Thanks again Russ

Removed rear sensor without difficulty, but how do you get at the front one, from above or below? I've ordered a socket as well.

Checked o/p of CPS today with results :-- At approx 1000rpm, no flt lamp, 10v peak to peak At approx 750 rpm, no flt lamp, 10v peak to peak At approx 450 rpm, flt lamp on, 8v peak to peak slight throttle very approx 1000rpm, flt on, 10v peak to peak Good sine wave under all conditions Measrements taken at connector on suspension turret I think it safe to say there is no fault with the CPS so i have ordered a pair of O2/lambda sensors. Thank you for the help, much appreciated.

This morning tried linking the 2 ecu inputs to one o2 sensor, the front one, car warmed up, idle settled at about 750 rpm, blipped throttle several times, no warning lamp, idle back to 750 rpm, everthing looking good so stopped engine reconnected everthing, restarted engine low tickover warning lamp comes on as expected. Tried same test with rear sensor only, fault still on, as you would expect. Retried test with just the front sensor again fault still on, not what i wanted or expected. At that point decided to have a coffee break and consider options. Decided to leave engine to cool and repeat tests starting with rear sensor only this time. It's all a bit inconclusive at the moment but quite possibly an o2 sensor. Thanks for diagram showing expected waveform, if possible i'll connect the 'scope before i try the tests again. The front sensor doesn't look very easy to get at which is a pity as there is nasty looking twisted wire and tape joint in the lead going to it and that will have to be sorted whatever else is done.

That all makes sense, if it dries up later I'll give it a try. Might it be worth dusting off the osocilloscope ( if it still works, I haven't even seen it for five years but it is in warm dry condensation free storage so should be ok) if the tests you suggest don't help ? Not sure what i should expect see on CPS o/p but sometimes it's better to take measurements before you know what the results should be. Digging out and playing with 'scope is probably just displacement activity until weather improves.😀

Found the notes i made about o2 sensors at the time, erratic idle/stalling, 2 blinks = rear bank sensor.

Hot idle was about 750 and yes it has o2 sensors. I changed an o2 sensor a couple of years ago but for the life of me i can't remember what the fault sysmptoms were or how i knew the sensor was faulty.

Had a little time to spare today so checked the above and found earth strap from the slam panel hanging in the breeze, all other connections were ok.. Cleaned up the conections and connected the strap to the cambelt cover where a bolt was missing and seemed the obvious place to put it. Cleared fault code and started engine, decided not take it for a run but leave it to warm up at tickover. When it warmed up enough to switch from high to normal tickover the revs dropped to around 500 rpm but no PGM fault lamp until I blipped the the throttle. Didn't take the cam cover off to check pulley/CPS but what I could see through the inspection hole looked pretty clean.

You mean turning the ignition on and off 20 times isn't necessary - just pull a fuse - AAAARGH!

Thanks for reminding me about the "S" fuse I hadn't removed it after cleaning connector C22. Did so this morning but sadly no change, fault reoccured. Seems to me that the fault comes on when the temperature gets to the point when fast tickover reduces to normal idle, when the fault is on idle is about 500rpm. Thanks for the links to ebay but they do not match the part number on mine (37820 PL2 G12), i know the manual & auto ECU's are different but there seems to several types about and i don't know what implications there might be from using the wrong type e.g. non cat type on cat equipped car. The list of other things to check is interesting, I did have a problem with an ABS wheel sensor (resistance of sensor was low but slowly crept up) and after i changed it i had trouble clearing the diagnostics, at various times showed pump fault, solenoid fault and even brake light switch fault, eventually i cleared them all after disconnecting and cleaning a lot of terminations but could not honestly say which if any were the problem, this was only a couple of days before the PGMFI problem started. I do rember cleaning the eath at the ABS end but not on the wing, I think that should be the first place to look but probably not today, it's raining again.

Taking advantage of a dry day and a break in the festivities, looked at the 14 way connector under the bonnet (C22), looked fine but gave it a squirt of switch cleaner anyway, next removed ECU, connectors also looking good, opened up ECU, it was clean as a new pin, looked over PCB (both sides) with a magnifying glass no sign of corosion cracked/dry joints etc, measured resistance from 20 way connector (C197 light green and blue/slate wires) back to crank sensor - 780 ohms which seems reasonable. Started car fine no warning light, left it idle while i moved another car out of the way, drove about a mile up the road and just starting to think it might be OK when warning light came on. Did not have time to check diagnostic led. Checked ebay for ecu for ECU assuming i may well need to try that next. Only one with same part number available and it is in Lithuania and looks to have been damp at some time. I'll check diagnostic led but am assuming, until then, that it will show the same fault.

Getting 4 blinks on diagnostic lamp and measure 750 ohms testing towards crank angle sensor from connector at front of engine. Cleaned connector contacts and fault is now intermittent but that could easily be a coincedence. She has to live outside for a while so need a break in the weather before i do anymore. I may well need some advice from those with more experience, if so, I'll start an appropriate thread elsewhere next time I post. Russ

Brett - Near Cardigan in Pontgarreg about 1/2 a mile from Llangrannog Urdd Camp, I bet your will know about Urdd and may well have been there. Dave - That's the one. Although the back box was not stainless and has been replaced since, as has the front section now I come to think about it. Russ

Dave - I'm sure you know it. Bret - Diolch. Sa i'n rhugl ond dw i'n trio. Russ

Hi Thanks for welcome, the 827 is a Mk1c Vitesse I'll take a couple pics on the next fine day we get. Where am I? Well Cardi is the clue😉 A couple of names here look familiar. Russ

Hi, I've had a Rover 827 for a while but only just discovered this forum. Russ